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Was Trump REALLY a Birther?

Was Trump REALLY a Birther?

  • Total voters
    54
radcen said:
I chose to vote "Other", which means I didn't vote, but the general premise of the question I feel is valid, so I commented.
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Well, I don't see "Other" as a poll option.

IMO, when a thread creator defines what the answer will mean, there is no point to the thread.

hit that no option, then you have to question every single position that he has ever laid out in the past year. Otherwise you are kidding yourself. I for one, don't believe a word he says! So what does that mean? Did he ever believe the birther nonsense? Or was he just using it for his own personal agenda, like a two-bit politician?​

Also, when the thread starts out with, "it's clear this man has no moral compass. He has no principles and is conning the entire country right before our eyes."

What is the point? Is the thread asking for an open discussion, or is it pre-loaded to pounce on anyone who doesn't agree with the bias?

As another poster correctly responded, preach to your choir.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Pretty simply stated, it's clear this man has no moral compass. He has no principles and is conning the entire country right before our eyes. Real birthers, the guys who fell for this stuff must be pretty angry at this point, but if they are, they aren't saying so. They are laying low.

So that begs the question: Did Donald Trump fake his belief in the birther movement just to propel himself into politics and perhaps the white house, so that he could succeed the first African American President and in a sense fire him? Was it all faux outrage? A test to see how people would react and see if it would stick?

Of course if you (I) hit that no option, then you have to question every single position that he has ever laid out in the past year. Otherwise you are kidding yourself. I for one, don't believe a word he says! So what does that mean? Did he ever believe the birther nonsense? Or was he just using it for his own personal agenda, like a two-bit politician? Or does that mean he actually does STILL believe the birther stuff and just is basically lying to the world that this is now what he believes, because Top politicians uh told him what to say??
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I think people tend to give Trump too much credit. This wasn't some grand scheme on his part. I think Trump is one of those guys who just buys into conspiracy theories. You see it here at DP all the time. Some people are just willing to believe that there is a conspiracy behind everything. I bet if asked, he would question the Kennedy assassination, say there are legitimate reasons to doubt the moon landing, and wouldn't rule out 9/11 being an inside job.
 
Kobie said:
Of course he used it for exposure and to promote himself, just like every other thing he's ever done since he's been in the public eye.
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When I heard the idea for the first time, it might have been on this board, not sure at all.

I did check the thing as far as I could. The definitive proof one way or the other would have been the Birth Certificate and, I may not be recalling this correctly, I don't think that the Birth Certificate was immediately produced.

My wondering about this was very private unless there was a post here or on whatever board I was posting.

Trump's wondering on this would have been very public like everything else he does. I feel that after years of being "the boss" in every meeting and every interaction, his filters were not well developed. I know that for about 20 years in my career, I was the boss and my jokes were always funny and my opinions were always wise. I seem to have become much less funny and wise after the careers and incomes of those around me no longer depended on my opinions.

Hillary seems to be presenting Trump as being a passionate leader of a "Birther Movement" that I didn't know still existed. Does it?

During the primary season, he seemed to direct his attacks against his opponents. Is he leading a "Birther Movement" that Hillary describes as racist, active, national and well organized? Do they wear uniforms? Pay dues?

What's really going on?
 
Helix said:
i doubt it. he's more of a surfer than anything. he sees a wave, and he jumps right on it, seeing where it will take him. doesn't matter what the wave is as long as it moves him forward. then if that wave becomes a problem later, he can just flat out disavow the position. doesn't matter at that point; the wave has already taken him closer to where he wants to go.
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^^yup^^

a surfer...excellent summation
 
year2late said:
Whether he believed what he said is no consequence.

He put time, effort, and a ton of money into supporting the movement.

So yes, he was not just a birther...he was the biggest of them all.
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You state this in the past tense.

Is he still doing so as Hillary states or not?

If he stopped, when was the last time he said that Obama is not an American Citizen?
 
Excon said:
This thread doesn't recognize that the term "birther" wasn't just restricted to just those who had beliefs of where he was born.
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What is the complete definition that you would like to present?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nope again.



Do you know who Sid Blumenthal is?
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There were the two Clinton supporters, but there is no evidence that Clinton herself or her campaign spread the story.
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Which is what I said. So the claim that Clinton or her campaign started birtherism is objectively false. Donald's going to have to take responsibility for his own choices, if he's even capable of doing that.
 
Cardinal said:
Which is what I said. So the claim that Clinton or her campaign started birtherism is objectively false. Donald's going to have to take responsibility for his own choices, if he's even capable of doing that.
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Sorry, Sid Blumenthal if you aren't familiar is Hillary's go to guy.
He most assuredly is associated with Hillary's campaign, was barred from working in Obama's White House (I wonder why) and Hillary hired him through her charity, effectively using him to help manage State department policy.

He was a senior campaign adviser in Hillary2008.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Pretty simply stated, it's clear this man has no moral compass. He has no principles and is conning the entire country right before our eyes. Real birthers, the guys who fell for this stuff must be pretty angry at this point, but if they are, they aren't saying so. They are laying low.

So that begs the question: Did Donald Trump fake his belief in the birther movement just to propel himself into politics and perhaps the white house, so that he could succeed the first African American President and in a sense fire him? Was it all faux outrage? A test to see how people would react and see if it would stick?

Of course if you (I) hit that no option, then you have to question every single position that he has ever laid out in the past year. Otherwise you are kidding yourself. I for one, don't believe a word he says! So what does that mean? Did he ever believe the birther nonsense? Or was he just using it for his own personal agenda, like a two-bit politician? Or does that mean he actually does STILL believe the birther stuff and just is basically lying to the world that this is now what he believes, because Top politicians uh told him what to say??
Click to expand...

The birther movement started with an attorney named Berg who is deeply involved in the Democrat party and was a Clinton supporter at the time. He filed the first lawsuit against Obama challenging his eligibility. Remember the acronym PUMA? That stood for Party Unity My Ass. They were hard core Clinton supporters and Berg's lawsuit was designed to stop the convention from nominating Obama because his claim was Obama born in Kenya. The case file can be found on the Internet.

Trump is birther in the sense he supported and promoted the conspiracy and he pimped the media to do it. Trump has a record of supporting conspiracy theories.
 
Cardinal said:
It wasn't even the campaign, it was just some supporter. Saying that Clinton started birtherism is like saying Donald started the Ku Klux Klan. Donald choosing to be a birther is all on Donald.
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True. Trump is responsible for using the birther thing.
Hillary's 2008 campaign is responsible for getting it going.
There's really no question about that anymore given what we know.
Even if there wasn't that evidence, surely anyone who's been conscious for the last few decades would have to acknowledge it sounds like the Clintons MO.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Sorry, Sid Blumenthal if you aren't familiar is Hillary's go to guy.
He most assuredly is associated with Hillary's campaign, was barred from working in Obama's White House (I wonder why) and Hillary hired him through her charity, effectively using him to help manage State department policy.

He was a senior campaign adviser in Hillary2008.
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I don't care if Blumenthal was her personal food taste-tester. The claim is that she and her campaign started the rumor, and that claim is false. What do you have against Trump taking responsibility for his own behavior anyway?
 
Cardinal said:
I don't care if Blumenthal was her personal food taste-tester. The claim is that she and her campaign started the rumor, and that claim is false. What do you have against Trump taking responsibility for his own behavior anyway?
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I don't.
I said he didn't seriously believe it, that he ran with it to get GOP "street cred."
It's directly tied back to her campaign in 2008.
So they were both wrong.
 
Helix said:
i doubt it. he's more of a surfer than anything. he sees a wave, and he jumps right on it, seeing where it will take him. doesn't matter what the wave is as long as it moves him forward. then if that wave becomes a problem later, he can just flat out disavow the position. doesn't matter at that point; the wave has already taken him closer to where he wants to go.
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The question is, is that always a bad thing, depending on the end point?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't.
I said he didn't seriously believe it, that he ran with it to get GOP "street cred."
It's directly tied back to her campaign in 2008.
So both people they were both wrong.
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"Tied" back to her campaign? Is that a sneaky way of saying "not her campaign?"

Donald's behavior is on Donald. If you're going to "tie" her to the founding of birtherism because of a couple of her supporters, then I get to say that Donald started the Ku Klux Klan. They're both the same kind of equally stupid statements.
 
trump, in his own words, showing how much - how deep and wide and heavy - he milked this as King Birther.

 
bubbabgone said:
True. Trump is responsible for using the birther thing.
Hillary's 2008 campaign is responsible for getting it going.
There's really no question about that anymore given what we know.
Even if there wasn't that evidence, surely anyone who's been conscious for the last few decades would have to acknowledge it sounds like the Clintons MO.
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If by "There's really no question," you mean you've chosen to accept a false narrative so that you can believe a false equivalency between Donald and Clinton, then yes, there's really no question.
 
Cardinal said:
"Tied" back to her campaign? Is that a sneaky way of saying "not her campaign?"
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Nope, I'm saying it directly came from her campaign.
They started the birther crap and the ObamaMuslim crap.

They tricked GOP leaning people into running with it to boot.

Cardinal said:
Donald's behavior is on Donald. If you're going to "tie" her to the founding of birtherism because of a couple of her supporters, then I get to say that Donald started the Ku Klux Klan. They're both the same kind of equally stupid statements.
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Right, birtherism started in 2008, the Klan started in the 2nd half of the 1800's.
Perfect equivocation.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nope, I'm saying it directly came from her campaign.
They started the birther crap and the ObamaMuslim crap.
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Since the supporters didn't work on the campaign you're just spamming the thread with a known lie.

Harry Guerrilla said:
They tricked GOP leaning people into running with it to boot.
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Awww, those poor hapless Republicans. They had no choice but to take a known falsity and make it their raison d'etre.

Harry Guerrilla said:
Right, birtherism started in 2008, the Klan started in the 2nd half of the 1800's.
Perfect equivocation.
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Both perfectly stupid statements. The analogy works for me. You're just playing six degrees of Kevin Bacon. I'm just making it more fun by adding the dimension of time.
 
Cardinal said:
Which is what I said. So the claim that Clinton or her campaign started birtherism is objectively false. Donald's going to have to take responsibility for his own choices, if he's even capable of doing that.
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Actually, Hillary's campaign manager in that time frame said that nobody in the campaign said that AND that they fired the campaign worker who said that.

I heard it on CNN and couldn't believe my ears. It was hysterical.

If that isn't "Clintonian", then nothing is.

Hillary Clinton Campaign Manager Admits 2008 Birther Link
<snip>
Blitzer: Someone supporting Hillary Clinton was trying to promote this so-called Birther issue? What happened?

Doyle: So we — absolutely, the campaign nor Hillary did not start the Birther movement, period, end of story there. There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe, in late 2007, I believe, in December, one of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa — I don’t recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an email that promoted the conspiracy.

Blitzer: The Birther conspiracy?

Doyle: Yeah, Hillary made the decision immediately to let that person go. We let that person go. And it was so, beyond the pale, Wolf, and so not worthy of the kind of campaign that certainly Hillary wanted to run.
<snip>


Just one more example of the bodies left strewn on the path followed by the Clintons.
 
Cardinal said:
Since the supporters didn't work on the campaign you're just spamming the thread with a known lie.
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Well that's not true.
Sid did work on her campaign.

Cardinal said:
Awww, those poor hapless Republicans. They had no choice but to take a known falsity and make it their raison d'etre.
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It's like people thinking Trump is the 2nd coming of Hitler.
It's abjectly stupid, but we're all human.

Cardinal said:
Both perfectly stupid statements. The analogy works for me. You're just playing six degrees of Kevin Bacon. I'm just making it more fun by adding the dimension of time.
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But it doesn't.
I have a reporter claiming to be an eye witness, that Sid B, who worked on Hillary's 2008 campaign, as a senior adviser, trying to push the Obama Kenya narrative.

You're claiming that an organization, that existed prior to the birth of an individual, was started by said individual.
 
Cardinal said:
If by "There's really no question," you mean you've chosen to accept a false narrative so that you can believe a false equivalency between Donald and Clinton, then yes, there's really no question.
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Of course, there are all kinds of parallels between them. That's obvious.

You seem to be implying that Trump is a racist and the Clintons are not.

That's interesting. Not just because it's untrue, but because you seem to actually embrace it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...ama-coffee-years-game-change-article-1.197492

Bill Clinton made insensitive ‘race jab’ about Obama in 2008 | New York Post

New report reveals the insensitive racial remark Bill Clinton made about Barack Obama in 2008 | Daily Mail Online
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Well that's not true.
Sid did work on her campaign.



It's like people thinking Trump is the 2nd coming of Hitler.
It's abjectly stupid, but we're all human.



But it doesn't.
I have a reporter claiming to be an eye witness, that Sid B, who worked on Hillary's 2008 campaign, as a senior adviser, trying to push the Obama Kenya narrative.

You're claiming that an organization, that existed prior to the birth of an individual, was started by said individual.
Click to expand...

There isn't any evidence that Blumenthal started the rumor anyway, regardless of how much you personally feel he might have worked on the campaign. So going back to Trump's claim which is “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy” based on what facts we have and not what your feelings tell you, is that an objectively true statement?
 
Who cares now?
Other then the Clinton camp (and the biased media) who stirred this up for nothing other to try to motivate black voters
to get out and vote. People on the Clinton side are apathetic about casting a ballot for Crooked Hillary.

If you watched the story there was no doubt it was staged for maximum effect! Crooked is sinking in the polls so anything is possible!
 
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