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After a tragedy, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

After a tragedy, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?


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as I said, I think you should be free to politicize away, at the risk of your credibility if the facts come in and prove you wrong.
Of course you should be free to. The questions pertains to the social appropriateness and wisdom of doing so. It does not insinuate legal restrictions. Even if you're right, it still may be an insensitive dick move to hammer on it immediately.
 
Of course you should be free to. The questions pertains to the social appropriateness and wisdom of doing so. It does not insinuate legal restrictions. Even if you're right, it still may be an insensitive dick move to hammer on it immediately.

I do not believe it is innappropriate to discuss an issue of national importance at any time.
what unspoken rule of society puts a time limit?

This almost reminds me of the South Park episode where they're joking about AIDS because it's been 27 years and some random number of days so it's finally ok to tell jokes about AIDS.

I mean maybe if you start being an absolute d!ck like the moment the news breaks, maybe that's bad. but if we're discussing political issues it should be kosher as soon as it's known what's happening.
 
Serious discussions, considerate of all involved, as information is available, can begin right away. The rabid nonsense we had to endure before the first victims were even identified shames all of us.
 
I do not believe it is innappropriate to discuss an issue of national importance at any time.
what unspoken rule of society puts a time limit?

This almost reminds me of the South Park episode where they're joking about AIDS because it's been 27 years and some random number of days so it's finally ok to tell jokes about AIDS.

I mean maybe if you start being an absolute d!ck like the moment the news breaks, maybe that's bad. but if we're discussing political issues it should be kosher as soon as it's known what's happening.
Using the San Bernadino and Orlando shootings as examples: What changed, politically, from one incident to the next? The answer is that nothing has changed, and if the debate is still the same, where's the harm in showing a little courtesy to the families and/or victims by taking a day for everyone to collect their thoughts? Are you seriously impressed by the first one to spout their political agenda just because they were first?
 
Using the San Bernadino and Orlando shootings as examples: What changed, politically, from one incident to the next? The answer is that nothing has changed, and if the debate is still the same, where's the harm in showing a little courtesy to the families and/or victims by taking a day for everyone to collect their thoughts? Are you seriously impressed by the first one to spout their political agenda just because they were first?

No, but I'm not going to fault them for speaking either. I'm not going to infer they're bad people because they broke some sacred unpsoken code no one can define.
 
After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

Serious discussion on gun control? Lets see ...... when is the next time the passing of Halleys comet will coincide with the Summer Olympics and a visit from aliens from Mars?
 
Serious discussion on gun control? Lets see ...... when is the next time the passing of Halleys comet will coincide with the Summer Olympics and a visit from aliens from Mars?
I know, I know... but in a way this point kinda makes the point in favor of courtesy to the victims even more respectfully significant.
 
No, but I'm not going to fault them for speaking either. I'm not going to infer they're bad people because they broke some sacred unpsoken code no one can define.
I want to say that you're one of the people who has posted in the sports forum regarding honoring baseball's unwritten rules, but I can't remember for sure, and don't care enough to go look.

Oh, and one doesn't need a written rule, or even an unwritten one for that matter, to be a decent person.
 
I want to say that you're one of the people who has posted in the sports forum regarding honoring baseball's unwritten rules, but I can't remember for sure, and don't care enough to go look.

.

I do not recall, I'm not much a sports guy and if I have posted on sports forums it wasn't something major.

you should ask my friend Cpgrad08 about baseball, he can tell you everything, he can tell you what baseball teams were called what in what year and name all the stars of the negro leagues and all that. I'm not a sports guy.
 
This reminds me of the group in "The Life of Brian"

remember?....this calls for immediate discussion!

The time for talk is over. The time to unleash our military, is here. A military with both boots on, and gloves off.

Being a Navy man, I have my personal opinion about ground pounding grunts, but I also know you cannot win a war without them. Once ground is taken, it needs to be held. The body count game failed in Vietnam and it is failing us here.

Take the ground away from them, hold it, capture the oil, seize their funds, then turn it over to someone that can hold it, and not give it right back to them.

or....

get the hell out after they are destroyed and never go back to that crap pile of the world again.
 
I know, I know... but in a way this point kinda makes the point in favor of courtesy to the victims even more respectfully significant.

Yes, I realize that is the normal feeling.......... but really, how is ignoring a system which contributed to the victim count somehow respectful? Does that not simply add to the problem in the future?
 
This reminds me of the group in "The Life of Brian"

remember?....this calls for immediate discussion!

The time for talk is over. The time to unleash our military, is here. A military with both boots on, and gloves off.

Being a Navy man, I have my personal opinion about ground pounding grunts, but I also know you cannot win a war without them. Once ground is taken, it needs to be held. The body count game failed in Vietnam and it is failing us here.

Take the ground away from them, hold it, capture the oil, seize their funds, then turn it over to someone that can hold it, and not give it right back to them.

or....

get the hell out after they are destroyed and never go back to that crap pile of the world again.
If we're serious, I don't disagree with this, but... I honestly believe that, at the higher levels, we do not have the guts and resolves to do what it takes to actually win. And as long as we don't, we're screwed.
 
Yes, I realize that is the normal feeling.......... but really, how is ignoring a system which contributed to the victim count somehow respectful? Does that not simply add to the problem in the future?
Why are you painting in an absolute? Really, that may be the biggest problem with political debate these days, everybody takes a point then expands it to the most absurd absolute possible in their rebuttal, rather than just addressing the point. No one said, or even implied, "ignoring". Ignoring implies a permanent response. I am not aware of a single person in this thread that has suggested ignoring anything. I certainly have not.

To be fair, part if my rant here is due to my frustration lately with this issue of painting everything to the absurd extreme. Both Trump and Obama have done it in the last few days. You're just the lucky guy that triggered my rant.
 
Why are you painting in an absolute? Really, that may be the biggest problem with political debate these days, everybody takes a point then expands it to the most absurd absolute possible in their rebuttal, rather than just addressing the point. No one said, or even implied, "ignoring". Ignoring implies a permanent response. I am not aware of a single person in this thread that has suggested ignoring anything. I certainly have not.

To be fair, part if my rant here is due to my frustration lately with this issue of painting everything to the absurd extreme. Both Trump and Obama have done it in the last few days. You're just the lucky guy that triggered my rant.

Ignoring the problem of guns is just what the Congress will do. Bet on it.
 
After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

Well, this is kind of a multifaceted issue.

First, it's context. Are you in the midst of a conversation focused around how to address/deal with situations like this? Or are you in the midst of a conversation talking about what's happening and the new facts coming out or how people are emotionally responding? For the former, it makes a lot of sense to bring up discussions of gun regulation or anti-terrorism measures. For the latter, it comes off as far more self serving and politicizing.

Second, in terms of time, I'd say is it something that's on going or over? Has all, or at least, most of the facts came out or is there still a ton of speculation going on? I think this has a large impact. I'm generally of the mind that it should definitely hold off until the issue is over, and that it's prudent to wait until most of the facts are clarified as well, at the very least.

Third, and it plays into #2, is how actually relevant to this specific instance is the "discussion" being had. For example, let's look at two matters with this current shooting. On one side, you have some on the right trying to immediately leverage this into a discussion about refugees and immigrants from counties associated with ISIS or Islamic extremism. This, despite the fact that the individual in question was a native born citizen raised here in the US. On the flip side, you have some on the left holding this up as evidence that we must deny firearms to anyone on the Terror Watch list, despite the fact that such legislation would in no way have stopped this from happening as Omar had been removed from said watch list for 2 years prior to purchasing the weapons in question. In both instances, the "discussion" being had is not ACTUALLY about the situation going on; it is simply leveraging the emotional impact of the situation going on to push an agenda that was already held prior to this and of which had no real bearing on the case in question.

By and large, its a case by case type of thing of looking at the "discussion" and asking yourself how much of the reference to the situation at hand is being done for legitimate reasons and how much is being done simply to capitalize on the emotional impact of a particular issue in the midst of it occurring. If it's appears to be aimed more at the latter, then it's less reasonable and more apt to be ignored. If it's the latter, it's the difference between attempting to capitalize on the dead as opposed to truly evaluating it in hopes of taking steps to potentially help prevent a similar instance in the future.
 
On the flip side, you have some on the left holding this up as evidence that we must deny firearms to anyone on the Terror Watch list, despite the fact that such legislation would in no way have stopped this from happening as Omar had been removed from said watch list for 2 years prior to purchasing the weapons in question. In both instances, the "discussion" being had is not ACTUALLY about the situation going on; it is simply leveraging the emotional impact of the situation going on to push an agenda that was already held prior to this and of which had no real bearing on the case in question.

I believe you are shortchanging those like myself who want to talk about guns in this matter since the issue of what guns should be available to the American public as a whole is very much now being discussed. Since Sunday I have hears the phrase WEAPONS OF WAR used countless times by the mainstream media in speaking with different people so it is very much a legitimate part of the discussion since Congress has and can again take actions against such weapons as were used in this event.
 
I will never understand people who can't just talk about things, who think others have to respect their feelings and keep quiet. If you don't want to talk about a tragedy, don't. If you don't want to hear about it, walk away. You cannot stop others from doing so though.
 
After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

IDK, give the families time to bury and mourn their loved ones.
 
It depends how well the participants understand the limits of available information about the tragedy in question.
 
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