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What drives Holocaust denial?[W:71]

What is the reason behind Holocaust denial.

  • Simple ignorance.

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • Anti-Semitism

    Votes: 8 19.5%

  • Ignorance and anti-Semitism combined.

    Votes: 25 61.0%

  • A simple desire to get the numbers/details right. (Don't want the Nazis wrongly accused)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Don't know.

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Don't care.

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • What was the Holocaust?

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .
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Fledermaus

Fledermaus

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What is it that drives Holocaust denial.

I am not talking about the whole "was it 6 million or only 5.9 million" variety.

It is the kind of denial of the "No gassing" or "No systematic program to kill Jews" or "Jews weren't intentionally killed, it was the (insert disease(s))"
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Fledermaus said:
What is it that drives Holocaust denial.

I am not talking about the whole "was it 6 million or only 5.9 million" variety.

It is the kind of denial of the "No gassing" or "No systematic program to kill Jews" or "Jews weren't intentionally killed, it was the (insert disease(s))"
Click to expand...

The same thing that drives every conspiracy argument. Distrust of government and the quest for knowledge.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Fledermaus said:
I REALLY should have added that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. I didn't even see it was a poll. Maybe it wasn't up yet. Ask a mod . . . See who's on line and message them. They are all powerful. ;)
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

The reason why there are Holocaust deniers is the same reason why it happened to begin with. Antisemitism and ignorance. One could argue that antisemitism is merely an example of ignorance, and as such the only reason is ignorance.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Ignorance.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

I frankly "do not care." But I will offer it is extremely unlikely that we are talking about motivations to get to some "truth."
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

I see it in terms of psychology, myself. Antisemitism is a product of of envy and resentment and spite and helplessness, as Jews are characterized as powerful and manipulative and secretive and cunning. When disgruntled individuals who lack a sense of self efficacy or esteem in their lives look for reasons for why they lack value, it is all too easy to blame others. In the case of Jews, a ready-made group has already been provided for such purposes, as all the key psychological triggers are built in to the system.

As to HOW antisemitism arose, one only needs to ask some basic questions and display an understanding of human nature. After the diaspora, when small Jewish communities arose throughout Europe, they kept to their own ways, married within their own and were seen as different. Their livelihoods were restricted to certain businesses, they were regarded with suspicion and were never really accepted as part of the nations in which they lived. Since many of these businesses involved banking and commerce, and they proved quite successful due to the value they placed on education, they thrived despite the limitations placed upon them.

It should be pretty easy for any reasonably intelligent person with an intuitive understanding of how people behave to realize that this was a veritable formula for prejudice -- one that continues to this day as all the same canards exist in regards to Jewish success.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

I didn't read the poll at all, but the answer is Trump. Has to be. If it isn't, why, it's not worth discussing.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Apocalypse said:
The reason why there are Holocaust deniers is the same reason why it happened to begin with. Antisemitism and ignorance. One could argue that antisemitism is merely an example of ignorance, and as such the only reason is ignorance.
Click to expand...

I doubt if antisemitism has much to do with it. The doubters are the same ones who see piles of molten aluminum under the bombed trade centers and post that Booth really didn't kill Lincoln.

Neither is it a quest for knowledge. The information is there and generally indisputable.

Some people just need a conspiracy to theorize.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Gardener said:
I see it in terms of psychology, myself. Antisemitism is a product of of envy and resentment and spite and helplessness, as Jews are characterized as powerful and manipulative and secretive and cunning. When disgruntled individuals who lack a sense of self efficacy or esteem in their lives look for reasons for why they lack value, it is all too easy to blame others. In the case of Jews, a ready-made group has already been provided for such purposes, as all the key psychological triggers are built in to the system.

As to HOW antisemitism arose, one only needs to ask some basic questions and display an understanding of human nature. After the diaspora, when small Jewish communities arose throughout Europe, they kept to their own ways, married within their own and were seen as different. Their livelihoods were restricted to certain businesses, they were regarded with suspicion and were never really accepted as part of the nations in which they lived. Since many of these businesses involved banking and commerce, and they proved quite successful due to the value they placed on education, they thrived despite the limitations placed upon them.

It should be pretty easy for any reasonably intelligent person with an intuitive understanding of how people behave to realize that this was a veritable formula for prejudice -- one that continues to this day as all the same canards exist in regards to Jewish success.
Click to expand...

On the point of banking, one fun fact: nobility and royalty regularly borrowed money from the Jewish bankers to fund their adventures (such as the Crusades). You get two guesses what happens to your debt when the lender is killed or exiled.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

humbolt said:
I didn't read the poll at all, but the answer is Trump. Has to be. If it isn't, why, it's not worth discussing.
Click to expand...

Because we need another Trump thread... ;)
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Cardinal said:
On the point of banking, one fun fact: nobility and royalty regularly borrowed money from the Jewish bankers to fund their adventures (such as the Crusades). You get two guesses what happens to your debt when the lender is killed or exiled.
Click to expand...
Our first anti semite with a jewish banking conspiracy has arrived.

In the 12th century, the need to transfer large sums of money to finance the Crusades stimulated the re-emergence of banking in western Europe. In 1162, Henry II of England levied a tax to support the crusades—the first of a series of taxes levied by Henry over the years with the same objective. The Templars and Hospitallers acted as Henry's bankers in the Holy Land. The Templars' wide flung, large land holdings across Europe also emerged in the 1100–1300 time frame as the beginning of Europe-wide banking, as their practice was to take in local currency, for which a demand note would be given that would be good at any of their castles across Europe, allowing movement of money without the usual risk of robbery while traveling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Crusades
Click to expand...

Always blaming da joos.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Christianity. Christians refuse to accept that one of their own committed the holocaust. The nazis where christian, either catholic or lutheran and hitler was a catholic.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

jimbo said:
I doubt if antisemitism has much to do with it. The doubters are the same ones who see piles of molten aluminum under the bombed trade centers and post that Booth really didn't kill Lincoln.

Neither is it a quest for knowledge. The information is there and generally indisputable.

Some people just need a conspiracy to theorize.
Click to expand...

This. If it were strictly about anti-Semitism wouldn't their argument be, "Sure it happen. But Jews gave the Nazis no choice."?

No, I think most of it revolves around a distrust of governments taken to an extreme. The thing is that conspiracies DO happen. And governments DO lie. But the explanations that conspiracy theorists believe are more improbable than any lie the government has ever told. Their reasoning seems to be:

1. The government says Event X happened.
2. The government often lies or distorts the truth.
3. Therefore, Event X did NOT happen.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Natan said:
Our first anti semite with a jewish banking conspiracy has arrived.



Always blaming da joos.
Click to expand...

That's me. Cardinal: the Antisemitic Jew.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Cardinal said:
That's me. Cardinal: the Antisemitic Jew.
Click to expand...
Why would you blame it on jews if it's not true? Are there other explanations but anti semitism or you admit just being wrong on a simple historical fact?
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Natan said:
Why would you blame it on jews if it's not true? Are there other explanations but anti semitism or you admit just being wrong on a simple historical fact?
Click to expand...

I admit that you need to read gooder.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

BrewerBob said:
This. If it were strictly about anti-Semitism wouldn't their argument be, "Sure it happen. But Jews gave the Nazis no choice."?

No, I think most of it revolves around a distrust of governments taken to an extreme. The thing is that conspiracies DO happen. And governments DO lie. But the explanations that conspiracy theorists believe are more improbable than any lie the government has ever told. Their reasoning seems to be:

1. The government says Event X happened.
2. The government often lies or distorts the truth.
3. Therefore, Event X did NOT happen.
Click to expand...

Some have even claimed the Jews "declared war" on Germany and the round up of Jews and confiscation personal properties was right under laws of war.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Fledermaus said:
What is it that drives Holocaust denial.

I am not talking about the whole "was it 6 million or only 5.9 million" variety.

It is the kind of denial of the "No gassing" or "No systematic program to kill Jews" or "Jews weren't intentionally killed, it was the (insert disease(s))"
Click to expand...

Denial... And anti-semitism, of course.
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

Gathomas88 said:
Denial... And anti-semitism, of course.
Click to expand...

That is my lean.

I have seen a couple of people convert once it was pointed out the Germans themselves copped to the act, there was physical evidence etc. They still were convinced Da Joos had something going on but that the Holocaust on a whole actually happened..
 
Re: What drives Holocaust denial?

BrewerBob said:
This. If it were strictly about anti-Semitism wouldn't their argument be, "Sure it happen. But Jews gave the Nazis no choice."?

No, I think most of it revolves around a distrust of governments taken to an extreme. The thing is that conspiracies DO happen. And governments DO lie. But the explanations that conspiracy theorists believe are more improbable than any lie the government has ever told. Their reasoning seems to be:

1. The government says Event X happened.
2. The government often lies or distorts the truth.
3. Therefore, Event X did NOT happen.
Click to expand...

It's strictly anti-semitism, fueled in no small part by ignorance. I'm ignorant about Eskimos, it doesn't mean I hate Eskimos.

Denying the holocaust removes legitimate "victim bragging rights" (to put it crudely) so that Jews can, in their eyes, be returned to their "rightful" aggressor status. Only even then, the aggressor status they want for the Jews was a position the Christians ironically forced them into.

Restrictions to marginal occupations (tax collecting, moneylending, etc.)

Among socio-economic factors were restrictions by the authorities. Local rulers and church officials closed many professions to the Jews, pushing them into marginal occupations considered socially inferior, such as tax and rent collecting and moneylending, tolerated then as a "necessary evil". Catholic doctrine of the time held that lending money for interest was a sin, and forbidden to Christians. Not being subject to this restriction, Jews dominated this business. The Torah and later sections of the Hebrew Bible criticise usury but interpretations of the Biblical prohibition vary (the only time Jesus used violence was against money changers taking a toll to enter temple). Since few other occupations were open to them, Jews were motivated to take up money lending. This was said to show Jews were insolent, greedy, usurers, and subsequently led to many negative stereotypes and propaganda. Natural tensions between creditors (typically Jews) and debtors (typically Christians) were added to social, political, religious, and economic strains. Peasants who were forced to pay their taxes to Jews could personify them as the people taking their earnings while remaining loyal to the lords on whose behalf the Jews worked.[2]
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medie..._.28tax_collecting.2C_moneylending.2C_etc..29
 
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