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The world is fu**ed and utterly with no hope, or is it?

Is the world fu**** up? Is there any hope left?

  • Nope, its not

    Votes: 12 27.9%

  • Nope, Im so stupid that I cannot see how idiotic things are

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • Nope, I like being a selfish and utterly stupid retard

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • The rest of the world is, American culture rules

    Votes: 3 7.0%

  • Yes, obviously, look at us, we are pathetic beings

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • Yes, there is absolutely no hope

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Yes, something needs to be done, people need to be enlightened

    Votes: 14 32.6%

  • Yea, everything is just ****ed, including me

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • Something else.. explain..

    Votes: 12 27.9%
  • Total voters
    43
Ahhr.. so little time and so many wrongs to correct here...


GySgt said:
Briefly:

1) Moral obligation: Iraq's population rose up repeatedly at our calling only to find that we didn't come to their rescue. Instead we preserved the tyrant under UN rules, which saw thousands of Iraqis starve to death. We pretend to not have known, but the truth is that the UN saw no problems with moving "soveriegnty" to the side so that American troops oculd assist in the humanitarian crisis in the north for years and years while this was happening.
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As if we have no moral obligations in Africa? The question was, why didnt we go there instead of Iraq, then you cite "moral obligations"... Dont know if I should cry or laugh... :(


GySgt said:
2) Bigger picture: With the Israeli/Palestinian situation being the most important factor for Muslims before "peace in the Middle East" becomes a reality, Hussein funded Palestinian suicide bombing was a problem that wasn't going away.
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Briefly... bigger picture is that many more people starve and die in Africa, and that the strategically best thing would be to get Africa on our side before it is too late.. 1 trillion and the effort of the Americans and the Europeans getting involved in a cooperation in this way, also commiting military forces would go a VERY VERY logn way to do this.. The Iraq war did nothing, except regime change and causing US economic disaster..

GySgt said:
3) Regional threat: If we add Iran and Kuwait to his flying military jets over Jordanian and Saudi air space as late as 2002, that would equal "4" neighboring countries that he dismissed sovereinty over. If we wanted to factor in the true definition of "sovereignty," the never ending suicide bomber violence he promoted in Israel (brief mention of Gulf War rocketing) this invasion of sovereignty would be "5."
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Yes yes, the middle east is not peaceful, but need to be approached in a very different way..


GySgt said:
We really don't even need to go into to what a successful Democratic Iraq does for the region. But just with these three points, UN still saw nothing wrong with the status quo and the denial. Europeans and plenty of Americans still sought to tie their morality to a system instead of to true values.
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Democracy isnt all that great, in many cases its awful and destructive... Iraq is a disaster and will never be stable nor good. If China invaded the US tomorrow and said how you should live and what system you should have after killing your wifes and children, do you believe the US population would just submit? Not in generations, maybe in decades of oppression...


GySgt said:
BUT....enter the other theme of the Euro anti-American. America's treasure is a matter for them to decide upon and it ussualy demands that it be saved up for when Europe needs it. The fact is that America has been in Africa since 2004. The HOA is a hot spot. Bush and Blair were the loudest speakers in the West to get UN intervention into Africa's Darfur region.
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What American treasure? The one in the Chinese central banks? The US debt in Europe, the US debt around the world? The newly printed debt-dollars?

GySgt said:
So the question is...where is the EU? Where's the European nations who feel they can criticize our involvement with Iraq by using neglected Africa as a tool...yet also remain comfortably absent from Sudan and Zimbabwe themselves? Were this a European nation like say....genocidal Bosnia,...military intervention would be ordained by God and the American "Bat-Signal" would have been over European skies. If your argument that the world doesn't need America's meddling anymore is true, then where is the great European leadership leading the charge into Africa?
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I believe Europe and the US should work together for solutions, and Africa should in my opinion be the main benefitiary..

GySgt said:
The real truth is that if America ain't leading it, it ain't happening. Maybe this is why Europeans resent us so much. They know that their own governments just can't get a job done without us and without us leading, their is no leader.
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Get real man, the US is heading for irrelevancy.. Europe and the US have always been the same and we have been allies for a long time(in US history), and we should help you and you us in changing things in for example Africa. nd if we combine our military might and economy, perhaps also this decade can be a western decade. I would hardly love to see the US desperately cling to power by advancing their military and nothing else, and doing wars around the world.. Not how I would like things to become...


GySgt said:
The past? Rwanda and Sudan was just in the 90's...the same approximate time Americans were summoned to deal with genocide in Europe. Today, only America is concerned over the HOA and it took some Somali piracy to get only a few Europeans to raise their brow.
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Many European countries are in Africa... European military vessels are the first one to be involved in protecting the seas outside the coast of Somalia.. They are even discussing a small European navy fleet to go down there under European flags rather than national ones.


GySgt said:
Nobody, to include Europe, can change the past. But, nor can Europe change the present, which means it has very little to do with shaping the future. Without us, it's just not going to happen because our fuzzy ideas of international law are a matter of convenience. Either the sovereignty of governments get intervened upon due to their proximity (Bosnia, Haiti) or they get sovereinty enforced upon them because their slaughter and genocide matter not to Europe.
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Euroep is the only one aside from China who is changing the current. Europe is undergoing great changes, China also.. The US is still stuck in its 1700 style political system, dumb wit politicians and arrogant and ignorant foreign policies.. How about actually doing some good things in your own country? Like getting rid of poverty and so fourth?


GySgt said:
You just don't get it. Where's your black president?
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Ok ok, I give up.. You are right about everything because the US is going to have a black president.. Sorry.. :roll:

GySgt said:
Where's your civil rights marches? Where's your Civil War to end slavery?
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We dont need to march for something we have, nor did we need to end slavery like the US did..

GySgt said:
You see, the old fashion values is what created Europe's America. The old prescriptions of designation within a society came from Europe. It's been 'Americans' that have been casting this off and making the declaration of standard to the world. While America's solution to ethnic and religious difference was to force toleration and saturation, which would see the civil war and later civil rights marches, Europe's solution was always to simply cleanse the society of ethnicity or to suppress religion. This is a sort of denial for modernism and progression for a preference of keeping things the way they have always been. Well, you got a whole exponentially growing Muslim immigrant problem that won't allow themselves to be supressed forever.
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I would say Europe is the most diverse society in the world, and we havent called black people "niggers" in a very long time.. I remember the US segregation ended just a few decades ago...

American ways of doing things are so 20th century...


GySgt said:
Ha. "One" achivement. A large part of Europe is a cultural dead zone. Trapped in 19th century look and forever afraid of actual change.
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Do you know ANYTHING about what is going on in Europe? Appearantly not... We are changing so fast that Americans have problems even observing it because you are so slow..

Is this a political debate or what? How is Americas political system changing exactly?

GySgt said:
Visiting Europe is like visiting your grandma's house - nothing changes. Even the Louvre Pyramid was viewed as an obscene addition to a stagnated culture that only wishes to live in the past. You brag about how far ahead Europe is in regards to society and governance, yet where is your black guy? You brag about historical firsts, yet what happened in the twentieth century when America was heading into space? Innovation and exploration is laregely an American gig now.
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Yep, there we go... Europe is old fashion and like visiting granmas house and stagnant culture, just because the US is about to have a black president. Then we cannot be progressing at all, because we have no black guy on tv that is going to be president.. Shame on us.. Exploration is mainly a Chinese gig now just to remind you of the reality..


GySgt said:
Cavemen invented the wheel. But what have they done lately?
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Bypassed the whole US air force, making them stand down while they flew two planes far of route into the city of New York and into your two tallest buidings, the ones with asbestos and fat new insurance policies..


GySgt said:
I believe it would be less expensive and less of a burden for us if NATO dissolved. America doesn't need it to protect itself and it had never been the factor in protecting its interests. If Europe needs America, then we simply get on our planes and boats and come over. And since we conduct most of the missions and leave some just for European nations to get involved anyway, no NATO required.

Europe's best bet is to keep America in the fold with "NATO" or to create a European military worth a damn and work with America's forces. But this is unlikely, because this would be like placing your citizens under the charge of other nation's leadership. Who leads it? France? Germany? Belgium? Norway? Britian, which is viewed as an outsider? Do they take turns? Do they vote on the General? Does Biritian remain on the outside as its own entity? American forces never fall under the charge of a foriegn leader. I don't see all of Europe's tribes uniting like this. It would be just like a UN mission where all the individual nations bicker and complain about work load and burden sharing (which is humerously never close to what America's roles always are).
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NATO and all this will have to be another discussion.. I just believe in a single European military force which can be in alliance with the US military force..
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I still see people suffering from hunger on tv every day, and the food crisis??

I do see those things, but all in all, what is so great about technology that it alone makes our society SO much greater today than before?




...and why do we not help these people? The spending on the Iraq war could have made agriculture and knowledge about agriculture in Africa quite advanced..
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Malawi was in the news yesterday, they went against the advice of developed nations and gave away seed and fertilizer to any of its citizens that would take it. They went from starving to a surplus of food....
They were told to do so would "ruin their economy". What a farce!!!
who cares about the nations economy when people are literally starving to death?
There WAS a factor that contributed to the lack of food, they had a prolonged drought, but the rains have returned and they are feeding themselves again.
It wasn't just knowledge they needed, apparently...but I agree that the money wasted "bringing democracy" to Iraq would be better spent helping others. If we want to be known as the greatest nation on earth, we can do that better with appropriate aid instead of guns...
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Tell me again? Why isnt the world progressing to where it could be?
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Religion, apathy, ignorance, laziness, cruelty, selfishness, limited time... the list goes on. The human condition is complex. Change is both expensive and destructive, even when it is for the better.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Most things still suck, but our knowledge and technologies dictatre that our world could be a completely different place than it is.. But hey, am I the only one that find politicians dumb?
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Your beliefs are Utopian and thus impractical. We are where we are. As many posters have explained things have been getting better for the average Joe. Nonetheless, there is still much room for improvement. In some areas we step back and others we step forward. Overall, we are moving forward not backwards.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I still see people suffering from hunger on tv every day, and the food crisis??

I do see those things, but all in all, what is so great about technology that it alone makes our society SO much greater today than before?
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Because the majority of the people on the planet would be starving without it, instead of a minority?




...and why do we not help these people? The spending on the Iraq war could have made agriculture and knowledge about agriculture in Africa quite advanced..
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France isn't spending money in Iraq. Maybe you should vote in a politician that will send some aid down there?
 
Wessexman said:
The EU is a nightmare that, at least the British have been dragged into kicking and screaming.
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Its not a nightmare, its working out fantastically for people who arent hardcore nationalists... That however pretty much excludes much of Britain..
 
RightOfCenter said:
Because the majority of the people on the planet would be starving without it, instead of a minority?






France isn't spending money in Iraq. Maybe you should vote in a politician that will send some aid down there?
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I never said just US politicians were dumb.. Most politicians are dumb, and among the dumbest are the French politicians..
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Its not a nightmare, its working out fantastically for people who arent hardcore nationalists... That however pretty much excludes much of Britain..
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It has done little for Britain and very unpopular. You can add hardcore decentralists to that, because that's what I am and I despise the thing.
 
Wessexman said:
It has done little for Britain and very unpopular. You can add hardcore decentralists to that, because that's what I am and I despise the thing.
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Had it not been for the European Union the UK would be far worse off than it is today.. Just remember Ireland as an example.. UK trade with Ireland has added hundreds of billions in trade over the past 30 years, because of the EU, and account for a large part of your GDP..That is just one thing....

Aside from that,the EU has also guaranteed your economic future by taking in a growing eastern Europe which will account for more and more of both your trade and GDP among others..
 
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Maximus Zeebra said:
Had it not been for the European Union the UK would be far worse off than it is today.. Just remember Ireland as an example.. UK trade with Ireland has added hundreds of billions in trade over the past 30 years, because of the EU, and account for a large part of your GDP..That is just one thing....
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Yes but Ireland gained at the rest of the EU's expense, we can't all do that.

Aside from that,the EU has also guaranteed your economic future by taking in a growing eastern Europe which will account for more and more of both your trade and GDP among others..
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And population it seems. I don't mind the EU being about trade only but I don't want it to be another layer of gov't that is further away and can never be democratic.
 
Wessexman said:
Yes but Ireland gained at the rest of the EU's expense, we can't all do that.
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That is where you are wrong.. Every country in Europe gained from Ireland developing into a modern nation.. If you cant see that, I do not even care to try to explain this any further..

Wessexman said:
And population it seems. I don't mind the EU being about trade only but I don't want it to be another layer of gov't that is further away and can never be democratic.
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Democracy is doomed to fail. Just look at the US.. We need a new political system, all the previous ones have failed.. My only hope in todays political world is the EU, which is also democratic, but in a different way.

How has UK politics fared the last 30 years, I do not see any change coming from the UK government..
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
That is where you are wrong.. Every country in Europe gained from Ireland developing into a modern nation.. If you cant see that, I do not even care to try to explain this any further..



Democracy is doomed to fail. Just look at the US.. We need a new political system, all the previous ones have failed.. My only hope in todays political world is the EU, which is also democratic, but in a different way.

How has UK politics fared the last 30 years, I do not see any change coming from the UK government..
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With such minds living in the EU, it is doomed to failure. The democracy in Europe exists today due to the US. You must be part of the young uneducated today, that never learned history passed Vietnam.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
How has UK politics fared the last 30 years, I do not see any change coming from the UK government..
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UK has changed over the last 10 years let alone 30
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I never said just US politicians were dumb.. Most politicians are dumb, and among the dumbest are the French politicians..
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Then why constantly tote the awesomeness of the EU when it is doing the exact same thing as the US!
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
That is where you are wrong.. Every country in Europe gained from Ireland developing into a modern nation.. If you cant see that, I do not even care to try to explain this any further..
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Oh so that makes subsidising it fine then?:roll:

If I want to give to charity I'll give money to Oxfam.

Democracy is doomed to fail. Just look at the US.. We need a new political system, all the previous ones have failed.. My only hope in todays political world is the EU, which is also democratic, but in a different way.
..
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A polity of 500+ million could never be a democracy in a meaningful way, the individual is buried under the mass.
 
American said:
With such minds living in the EU, it is doomed to failure. The democracy in Europe exists today due to the US. You must be part of the young uneducated today, that never learned history passed Vietnam.
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What EXACTLY is wrong with Ireland devloping.. Man... Gee.. *frustration*
 
American said:
With such minds living in the EU, it is doomed to failure. The democracy in Europe exists today due to the US. You must be part of the young uneducated today, that never learned history passed Vietnam.
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What exactly is right about white smile joke and money democracy with the choice between 2 bads? How s US politics functioning these days.. you just dont see it do you? Democracy is rottening, and its spreading all over the world, the rot of democracy I mean.. Look at France for example, democracy is rottening there as well.. In the end democracy will always end up like in the US, rotten straight through.
 
Wessexman said:
Oh so that makes subsidising it fine then?:roll:

If I want to give to charity I'll give money to Oxfam.


A polity of 500+ million could never be a democracy in a meaningful way, the individual is buried under the mass.
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I do not care to explain my whole idea of modern politics right now, but it should be somthing completely different from what it currently is..

Have you ever been to Ireland, almost all of its infrasturcture is paid for by the EU.. I think that is great.. I am happy that my taxes goes to help countries rather than just paying for corruption in my own country.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I do not care to explain my whole idea of modern politics right now, but it should be somthing completely different from what it currently is..

Have you ever been to Ireland, almost all of its infrasturcture is paid for by the EU.. I think that is great.. I am happy that my taxes goes to help countries rather than just paying for corruption in my own country.
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That is what charity is for, we should not be forced to do it.

Which country are you from?
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
How s US politics functioning these days.. you just dont see it do you?
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I guess not. What's wrong? Are you sure you are not being nostalgic again?

Democracy is rottening, and its spreading all over the world, the rot of democracy I mean.. Look at France for example, democracy is rottening there as well.. In the end democracy will always end up like in the US, rotten straight through.
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How is it "rotting"? Be specific.
 
scourge99 said:
I guess not. What's wrong? Are you sure you are not being nostalgic again?

How is it "rotting"? Be specific.
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He can't, because it isn't rotting. Granted, we have been healthier economically and politically in the past, but we will survive.
We aren't stuck in the permanent deep rut that most of the EU are so happy with....every now and then they stick their heads up and complain about the nation that is doing better. Green with envy and with little chance of ever progressing beyond an elevated form of serfdom at home, they either emigrate to the USA, or stay there and whine. :2razz:
 
Wessexman said:
That is what charity is for, we should not be forced to do it.

Which country are you from?
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What exactly is wrong with solidarity? What is wrong with "one for all and all for one"?

besides, it is volunteer... How about govenment waste of money which is a far bigger cost to the UK every year than all UK contributions to the EU as long as you have been members.. Remember you contribution to the EU is a tiny part of GDP, and you get most back in re-investments.
 
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