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Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?


  • Total voters
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Not precisely, but it's clear from his teachings that unless people repent of their sins (including fornication, adultery, gay sex sin), and receive him for salvation, they're screwed (Luke 13:3, John 3:36, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Revelation 21:8, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.).

Don't leave earth without him.

I notice with the gospel extracts Jesus doesn't mention sex.
 
I notice with the gospel extracts Jesus doesn't mention sex.

He never approved of gay marriage either.

Jesus is God. As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.
 
He never approved of gay marriage either.

Jesus is God. As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

I'm sure if Jesus was here in flesh today he'd say, gay life is not the way to go. It will be an unwholesome life, and you won't be satisfied, but if it's the only way you can have love then ok. I forgive you for hurting yourself.
 
I'm sure if Jesus was here in flesh today he'd say, gay life is not the way to go. It will be an unwholesome life, and you won't be satisfied, but if it's the only way you can have love then ok. I forgive you for hurting yourself.

People are hurting themselves when they refuse Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who can set them free.
 
<facepalm>

The Apostle John wrote it, and not the Baptist. Which shows what you know about it.

Revelation was written by God, doncha know? Whoever's hand was moving at the time is irrelevant.
 
This post is your shortest, so I'm just gonna quote it and then go from there.

Well that's an interesting split. You have far more respect for a faith that you perceive as being far more intolerant, malicious, and bloodthirsty? Do you value those traits?

You get people in the church who abuse sexuality, sure. Christians are sinners who fall prey to temptation just like everyone else. The point, however, was as a matter of belief.

Well enough. Why - however - would you say that?

Oh yes. Because if there is anything that has been just awesome for America, it's the break up of the family. Children of single parents and children of divorce do awesome.

:shrug: well, again, the most conservative churches on this issue are the ones that are more broadly retaining or growing their membership.

Interesting. So your answer is that you can't know until you've done it. Except that that is not a rational construct at all - it is an experiential one, perhaps, though it seems far more emotional. But shouldn't you be able to explain rational reasons why something is good and why you should act good that would be apparent and available to all, if your claims about the nature of morality and reason are correct?

That's interesting - that's not what I've seen at all. The vast majority of the folks who leave are the ones who were fringe / apathetic to begin with.



0. Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree about the block-quoting-vs-outlining thing.
1. "Christian bullies." You're right. Many of you are. Thanks, I'm going to use that phrase more. :)
2. Newton gave us physics; Mendel gave us genetics (a cornerstone of evolution, BTW); John Locke (right?) was a liberal who, according to the Wikipedia page, greatly influenced Voltaire. In all cases, these men helped give us a great gift: Reliance on reason and open-minded inquiry, not dogma and superstition. As another Christian scientist (not to be confused with the denomination) once said: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use."
3. You didn't define what postmodernism was. And what is your deal with relativism. You really think that everything in life is cut-and-dry, black-and-white, right-or-wrong? If so, then I almost guarantee you that no matter what claim of morality you make short of "Thou shalt not nuke the entire planet," it cannot necessarily be 100% defended. For example, don't commit murder? OK, what about self-defense? Where is the threshold between justifiable and criminal homicide? We've already had multiple, bitter debates surrounding instances where that very question was at stake.
(3.1) And here you go again with the snark. Put it where the sun don't shine, Will. It is categorically not welcome. I don't understand how much clearer I can make that for you.
(3.2) OK, since you didn't catch my tip the first time, let me clearly spell this out: Our believing in "if it feels good, do it" is a massive strawman. Lose it already. And your lecture of delayed gratification, when I have seen some conservatives struggle with this too, is neither necessary nor welcome.
(3.3) Yet again, get the plank out of your eye so you can see the speck in mine.
4. OMG STOP LYING. You are harping on a point that I DID NOT MAKE. Stop lying already. See this is why I can't respect your beliefs, Will. You occasionally toss out something that I could work with, and then you pull this ****. Furthermore, it is pure hypocrisy on your part when you are either unwilling or unable to obey the Ninth Commandment, which, as a Christian, is one of your ten basic rules.
5. Christianity is dying out in America. I am not going to let this go until you get it. That is a fact, will, a cold, hard fact that you are deliberately and intentionally choosing not to accept.
(5.1) You shift from blaming the entire public education system to blaming a couple of "low-quality videos"?! HA! Alright, fine, Creationist Cat's videos are not exactly what I'd call high-quality. but that's part of why I didn't reference his.
(5.2) Actually I was thinking going over to the videos themselves and commenting there. But yes, I can pop by the Religion forum. :)
6. Tell me one verse, one single verse, where Jesus explicitly said that being LGBT was a sin, or where he explicitly told a clearly LGBT person to "repent."
 
7. Whoa, you served in the armed forces. Thank you for your service. Don't forget, though, that you swore to defend all Americans: LGBT, not just heteronormative; liberals, not just conservatives and libertarians; atheists, Jews, and Muslims, not just Christians.
8. This lie is tossed around a lot by the Right. It expresses a fundamental inability to discern what persecution actually is. You don't believe that gays should marry? Fine, don't get married to another man. But you do not have the right to tell other gays not to just because you find it icky, or "morally wrong," or "sinful," or "against God's word," or whatever bull**** excuse that anti-LGBT Christians use. Your rights end where my face begins. Get over it already. The gay is here to stay.
(8.1) Bias is not the same as persecution. Not even close. I have noticed in my years of interacting with people of multiple religions that the religion with the single most defensive group of people to polemics is, by far, conservative Christians. There isn't even a close second. Muslims (as long as you avoid insulting the Prophet) and Jews are far, far, far less defensive towards polemics. In fact Jews almost seem to welcome it!
9. It is not your place to tell a gay person what is "temptation." That is theirs and theirs alone. To do so is bullying, pure and simple.
P.S. Glad you were able to shake the bad drinking habits.
Ah, yes, the old "we choose to sin" argument. Free will. Do tell me, Will, what kind of a God creates sin, knowing that we are going to sin, and then blames us for it when we do sin? Again, such a God is not worthy of worship.
10.A. Please, dude, don't even try that ****. You wanna talk to me about a "Biblical message about sexuality"? I could go on ALL DAY about how the OT is incredibly ****ed up when it comes to sex. The OT is so outdated it isn't even funny. And I have zero respect for anything that the incredibly misogynistic St. Paul said about sex.
10.B. Prove it. More liberal churches are dying, too, but unlike Evangelicals, liberal Christians don't freak out when people suddenly stop showing up on Sundays.
10.C. HA! yeah you just go on thinking that. I was just talking with a friend the other day about a pretty large Baptist church that recently got demolished in Atlanta, and you know what he told me was the single greatest contributor? Age. That church literally died off. And that's a problem that church after church is facing. And they are doing a terrible job, as evidenced by your words, of diagnosing the true cause.10.D. Knock it off. Your judgmental attitude is not welcome.
"Because he loves us." Hahahahahahaha oh man...that reminds me of a great George Carlin routine...man, if you weren't so damn up-tight about your religion, I guarantee you that even you would enjoy it!
We need to worship him? Why?! So he won't cook us in Hell?
HA! If you seriously think that I'm the first person to ask what God gets out of worship, then you need to engage in a lot more apologetic/polemical conversations. It's a fair question, and I would like an answer: What does God get out of worship?
11. See above. It is primarily the attitudes of a religion's followers by which I judge a religion--a stance, I admit, that not all freethinkers take. I am painfully aware of not just the good but the bad that has been done in the name of Jesus, past and present. Even in your responses to me, right here in this thread, you have revealed some of that.
12. Whatever.
Because it's hypocrisy, something I cannot stand. People who cannot follow their own basic beliefs have no business trying to preach them to others, let alone trying to make those beliefs into laws of the land. Yet again, this is something that Millennials are keenly aware of and that conservative Christians have yet to come up with an answer for.
13. Divorce and single parenting is not the cut-and-dry issue that you apparently think it is. Divorce can be anything from horrible to long-overdue, depending on the circumstance. And frankly your comments against single parents are insulting. You should speak of things you clearly do not understand. I have met some great single parents, and I have met some horrible parents who are still married. Conservative Christians' blind believe that two (straight) parents is the magic number is just laughable.
14. No, Will, you don't understand. See, I am an ex-conservative-Christian. (And this is where you start to really judge me. Bring it on.) So I know your (plural) tricks; I know your tactics. Your bluffs are easy to call, because I know what's what. There are only so many ways to defend a mirage before finally realizing it is a mirage.
Maybe there is a grain of truth to that. OK, I think a better formulation of my claim is that it is the people who seek honest answers about Christianity and stop taking it at face value are the ones most likely to leave. There; that's a more defensible claim, one that I have seen plenty of examples of.
 
6. Tell me one verse, one single verse, where Jesus explicitly said that being LGBT was a sin, or where he explicitly told a clearly LGBT person to "repent."

See post # 202.

Also - you going to repent if he did? Fact is you don't really care, do you? Nothing - absolutely nothing - is going to put a damper on your parade. And don't try to ever tell us different.
 
See post # 202.

Also - you going to repent if he did? Fact is you don't really care, do you? Nothing - absolutely nothing - is going to put a damper on your parade. And don't try to ever tell us different.

Repent? No thanks, man, there's a reason why they call it the Dark Ages. The Enlightenment is more nearly my style. :)

And why are you referring to yourself in the first-person plural? Reminds me of "My name is Legion, for we are many..."
 
Repent? No thanks, man, there's a reason why they call it the Dark Ages. The Enlightenment is more nearly my style. :)

I wouldn't call it enlightenment. Regressive Sodom and Gomorrah moralism is about as ancient and 'dark ages' as one can get. :)
 
On a government and legal level it's a dead issue. Socially, it never will be, just like racial issues. America never fully grows out of these tired debates.
 
I wouldn't call it enlightenment. Regressive Sodom and Gomorrah moralism is about as ancient and 'dark ages' as one can get. :)

Indeed, inhospitality is a pretty grave sin. Jesus made that pretty clear in Matthew 10:14-15.
 
People are hurting themselves when they refuse Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who can set them free.

I feel no one bit of hurt. Now I do see a lot of people that would like to inflict hurt because other people don't believe as they do, eyeball on you.
 
Indeed, inhospitality is a pretty grave sin. Jesus made that pretty clear in Matthew 10:14-15.

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 1:7
 
Hey, you guys like it and use it so much I though I'd heave one back at you. And now you're going to whine?
I don't whine by principle, don't worry.

And good on you:peace
 
On a government and legal level it's a dead issue. Socially, it never will be, just like racial issues. America never fully grows out of these tired debates.

i actually think it will be less of a problem than racial issues within 10 years, reason being that america is so racially segregated, but lgbt obviously are everywhere. If you look at western europe for instance, there's a lot of problems with racism/anti semitism, but SSM has like 90% support.
 
I could hope it is.

But it ain't.

Decades from now some people will still be pissed about it.

Meh.
 
Yes the issue of SSM is settled. Theres nothing to discuss on that issue, equal rights and the constitution won.
Those people that dont like SSM or think its not right are still free to not like it and think its not right but like many other things in this country they have no right to stop it.

As for related issues? those arent done yet. Eventually in the near future sexual orientation will be added to anti-discrimination laws under sex like it should be on a national level.
 
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