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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Moot said:
78% of all slaves in America were in the South. The north doesn't even begin to compare to the stench of slavery in the south. In the mid 1800s, the north was starting to industrialize and whites didn't want to compete with blacks for their jobs and that's why slavery never really took hold.

If you continue to read about the war only through southern eyes its a guarantee that you'll almost always be wrong.
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I'm posting links from New York State acknowledging their slave history. I have freely acknowledged the role of slavery in the south. Perhaps you are the one with blinders on.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Atiya said:
Many white southerners realize the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racial hatred for African Americans and are unwilling to adjust their attitude. They like things to stay the same. Unfortunately, the world is changing all around us, so quickly, that same sex marriages are becoming routine. It's about time we did the same thing with racism in the southern states which fly the Confederate Flag by digging our way out of a morass of lies and ignorance.
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The South's public collective memory of slavery and the Civil War has been so distorted, embellished, glorified and revised for so long that the lies have become truth to them. A lot of the misinformation was taught to them in grade school history books written by southern revisionists and can be found on the confederate memorials and monuments all over the south....

Why do people believe myths about the Confederacy? Because our textbooks and monuments are wrong. - The Washington Post

How can you reason with someone who's lies are written in stone?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
I'm posting links from New York State acknowledging their slave history. I have freely acknowledged the role of slavery in the south. Perhaps you are the one with blinders on.
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Were you hoping to use New York as justification for slavery in the South? Did New York pass slave laws to protect slavery like the South did?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Moot said:
Were you hoping to use New York as justification for slavery in the South? Did New York pass slave laws to protect slavery like the South did?
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Of course you can find somewhere...ANYWHERE...that I have attempted to 'justify' slavery anywhere. Right? Go ahead and post it...I'll wait.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
The south became known for racism due to the actions of several groups towards blacks in the south as retaliation for their suffering during the reconstruction period. A lot of blame was placed upon the black population because they were an easy and vulnerable target. This of course, kept the southern racists vocal while the northern ones weren't. Not to mention that more black people live in the south, even TODAY, than in any other region in the US, and therefore, racial incidents were FAR more likely to occur between southern whites and blacks than northern whites and blacks.
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LOL, yes, due to the actions of several groups, such as the legislatures and Governors who passed and enforced Jim Crow laws, the cops who ignored lynchings of blacks, winked at or participated in vigilante justice, the election administrators who kept blacks off the voting rolls, therefore off juries, unable to even run for office, etc......

It's soo unfair that my region gets tarred with being racists and white supremacists. We only oppressed blacks for 100 years after the Civil War..... :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I know that your pathetic school system taught you that humans used to ride dinosaurs and the confederate flag means beer and hot wings, but you are responsible for how others may interpret what you say and do in a society.

Your complete ignorance does not excuse you. Linguistically, the idea that only YOUR definition matters makes about as much sense as driving your car into a brick wall.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
You keep going back to that illogical leap that says since there are overall 'other' considerations, it must therefore mean it is OK or that people are 'defending' slavery.
The flag does not represent 'slavery'. You can make it MEAN slavery if you like, but that is not what it means to the vast majority of people that grew up with it as parts of our lives. IF the people of any state wish to choose to stop flying the flag at their state buildings then that should be the choice they make and they should do it for the right reasons and NOT because a bunch of race bating morons from DC have created this 'cause' to stir **** up with. WHen you look across the country at the problems black America faces and you come to the conclusion that what you REALLY need to get spun up over is a flag and a TV show...that speaks volumes about you.
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I agree with that, and the best reason in SC is the STATE itself rose that flag on top of their state house in defense of Jim Crow in 1961. State leaders adopted the battle flag of the Confederacy, whose VP said this, "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition" to defend, 100 years later, second class status (aka "subordination to the superior race") for the same blacks that the Confederacy would keep in bondage.

The flag just has a shameful history, whether you look at it from 1861 or 1961 when it went up on the SC capital.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.
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Abolished, no. In a museum, yes.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

JasperL said:
I agree with that, and the best reason in SC is the STATE itself rose that flag on top of their state house in defense of Jim Crow in 1961. State leaders adopted the battle flag of the Confederacy, whose VP said this, "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition" to defend, 100 years later, second class status (aka "subordination to the superior race") for the same blacks that the Confederacy would keep in bondage.

The flag just has a shameful history, whether you look at it from 1861 or 1961 when it went up on the SC capital.
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Im sorry but you are simply as wrong as you can be. "The Flag" does not have a shameful history. What some have done with it and its legacy is indeed shameful. As has been clearly demonstrated...numerous states have done shameful things while flying their current state flag. TYhings were done by many in this country under the US flag and to some the US flag itself is a symbol of oppression.

The flag is just a flag. The meaning is what specific individuals assign to it.

All that being said...you recognize of course that this is all cause driven bull**** and those clamoring for the flags removal are mere puppets dancing because a bunch of ****heads in DC are telling them to dance...right? While people are ****ting themselves over this flag, in a relatively slow weekend in Chicago 82 people were shot, 14 of the fatally, and nary a Confederate flag was to be found. The black communities in this country are still immersed in ****...and no Confederate flags are flying to hasten their misery. Its all bull****...its a cause...and you ought to be embarrassed if you fell for it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

JasperL said:
I agree with that, but I don't know of many liberals who support TPP. Obama does, which is why some of us object to him being called a liberal or "socialist" who is walking in step with the Fortune 500 on this and other major issues important to them.
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Yet they will all vote for hillary, who is at best "non-committal" on the deal, meaning she'll be all for it once elected.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Boo Radley said:
It does today.

Why do people believe myths about the Confederacy? Because our textbooks and monuments are wrong. - The Washington Post
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I got as far as "Professor of Sociology" and already doubted it.

Sociology is a "study" of how evil whitey is.... that is pretty much the entirety of it. Sure they throw some other **** in there to mask the fact that its purpose is to spread white guilt over some **** the vast majority of white people have absolutely no control over.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I may be alone in this assessment...

Removing the Confederate flag from statehouse is a good thing, and probably overdue. Especially considering that in SC it only went up in 1962 in response to Civil Rights.

However, it seems the hysteria has gone a bit overboard. Restricting it everywhere is way too much.

It's place in history should be honored, but to say that history is without racism is extremely dishonest. The whole Confederacy only started because a President was elected who had this notion that black people were people.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
Of course you can find somewhere...ANYWHERE...that I have attempted to 'justify' slavery anywhere. Right? Go ahead and post it...I'll wait.
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Why are you trying to compare slavery in New York to slavery in the South?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
Im sorry but you are simply as wrong as you can be. "The Flag" does not have a shameful history. What some have done with it and its legacy is indeed shameful. As has been clearly demonstrated...numerous states have done shameful things while flying their current state flag. TYhings were done by many in this country under the US flag and to some the US flag itself is a symbol of oppression.

The flag is just a flag. The meaning is what specific individuals assign to it.
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The STATE OF SC assigned a "meaning" to it - KEEP SC WHITE. JIM CROW FOREVER. "What some have done with it" is the STATE OF SC, their legislature, and governor, as recently as 1961 and for the next 39 years, flying it on top of their state house.

All that being said...you recognize of course that this is all cause driven bull**** and those clamoring for the flags removal are mere puppets dancing because a bunch of ****heads in DC are telling them to dance...right? While people are ****ting themselves over this flag, in a relatively slow weekend in Chicago 82 people were shot, 14 of the fatally, and nary a Confederate flag was to be found. The black communities in this country are still immersed in ****...and no Confederate flags are flying to hasten their misery. Its all bull****...its a cause...and you ought to be embarrassed if you fell for it.
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It's a pretty weak defense. Anytime you have to go, "Well, gosh, there are all these other important issues - what about them!!????" then you've hit the bottom of the barrel. In this context you're just saying that our (the South's) history doesn't matter, and I don't agree.

I don't really care much about the flag itself, it's a reliable identifier around here of idiots or racists, and I'm always happy for the heads up. But to the extent that our history matters, the flag and its history matters. If defenders admitted that, yes, state governments, political leaders, governors, etc. all over the South rallied under that flag to defend Jim Crow in the 50s and 60s, and yes, blacks rightfully don't share the sentiment that the banner FOR Jim Crow represents the noble part of Southern Heritage, but we don't care. We love it so to hell with anyone who disagrees, at least we're being honest.

But what I see instead is like you did above - "what some did with it...." No, that's not the problem, this unidentified 'some.' What THE STATE did with it is the problem.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

ReverendHellh0und said:
Yet they will all vote for hillary, who is at best "non-committal" on the deal, meaning she'll be all for it once elected.
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Of course she's for it. It's likely that all the Republicans in the race are also.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Atiya said:
Many white southerners realize the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racial hatred for African Americans and are unwilling to adjust their attitude. They like things to stay the same. Unfortunately, the world is changing all around us, so quickly, that same sex marriages are becoming routine. It's about time we did the same thing with racism in the southern states which fly the Confederate Flag by digging our way out of a morass of lies and ignorance.
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Im sorry... I can't take your opinion of the south very seriously... you live in New York.

Meanwhile... in the South...
The Cities Where African-Americans Are Doing The Best Economically - Forbes
 
Re: Confederate Flag

ReverendHellh0und said:
Yet they will all vote for hillary, who is at best "non-committal" on the deal, meaning she'll be all for it once elected.
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Perhaps because we know the GOP candidate will vote for it and will enthusiastically support TPP.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

rocket88 said:
I may be alone in this assessment...

Removing the Confederate flag from statehouse is a good thing, and probably overdue. Especially considering that in SC it only went up in 1962 in response to Civil Rights.

However, it seems the hysteria has gone a bit overboard. Restricting it everywhere is way too much.

It's place in history should be honored, but to say that history is without racism is extremely dishonest. The whole Confederacy only started because a President was elected who had this notion that black people were people.
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Not equal people mind you........ just people....

And sometimes... people who should be shipped back to Africa.

Just saying... people like to ignore the **** Lincoln said (whites should be superior, blacks should be transported back to Africa) and did (wrecked the constitution, shut down newspapers, acted without congress in matters too numerous to count, let his generals burn cities and soldiers rape/pillage) all because he was anti-slavery and "freed the slaves" (although lets be honest, he did no such thing).
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
I got as far as "Professor of Sociology" and already doubted it.

Sociology is a "study" of how evil whitey is.... that is pretty much the entirety of it. Sure they throw some other **** in there to mask the fact that its purpose is to spread white guilt over some **** the vast majority of white people have absolutely no control over.
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LOL, says the guy who blames the South's racist reputation on a few years after reconstruction and not the state sanctioned discrimination against blacks for the entire 100 years following the Civil War.... :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Moot said:
Why are you trying to compare slavery in New York to slavery in the South?
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Slavery is slavery......

People always have to try to find a way to say, "OH YEAH... BUT IT WAS WORSE IN THE SOUFFF!!"

And by that very notion, you don't give a **** about the issue you claim to care about...... You only prove that your only care in the debate is "hatin' the south"
 
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