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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

So you're pretending you know everything that happened before that video was taken?



You avoided my question.


Who said "hugs"? Is the mere presence of the Northern Virginia battle flag all the justification needed for acts of violence being done to the person who dare possess it?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You avoided my question.


Who said "hugs"? Is the mere presence of the Northern Virginia battle flag all the justification needed for acts of violence being done to the person who dare possess it?

Now who's avoiding questions? You claim all it took to deserve this beat down was possession of that stinking flag. So tell us how you know what went on before that video started or admit you're manufacturing victimhood status for bigots.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

wait, so ones business is not private property?

Being licensed to do business in public means just that, doing business with the public which means adhering to non-discrimination laws. I'd suggest you wise up but I doubt that's possible.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Now who's avoiding questions? You claim all it took to deserve this beat down was possession of that stinking flag. So tell us how you know what went on before that video started or admit you're manufacturing victimhood status for bigots.


So you are saying that I am avoiding the question you asked to avoid my question so it's my bad for not answering your question you asked to avoid mine?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yes, many nations held slaves at one point in their history, not all of them did. Where did you get this information? Was it from one of those facebook meme's?

Let me cut to the chase for you. I am not a liberal nor am I making the argument that you seem to be wanting to argue against.

The reality is that the USA abolished slavery not the Confederates at any point in their short pathetic history. In fact the Confederates were willing to fight to keep slavery intake. Yes the USA has made some big mistakes but we are here now and the Confederates are not. There is no real reason to celebrate a bunch of assholes that wanted to take over portions of the USA to create a version of the US that aimed to keep slavery alive and to regress back to a failed model of government not much unlike the Articles of Confederation. Even if those assholes were my ancestors. Which they were.


The confederate flag (all of them national or battle) can be flown on private property by any citizen for whatever reason that they want to fly it. Im good with that. But flying the flag on government property is an entire different ball game. The government has no right to fly whatever flag it wants to fly. We have a flag code.

USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - United States Code
Look how cute you are with your bitter feisty self.
The US DID ban slavery...but not for decades after its formation. In 1827, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence and after being THE hub for slave sales for 200 years, New York finally ended slavery. New Hampshire...not til 1845. Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Jersey...all later (NJ not til 1865).

As for slave history throughout the world...Come on dood...seriously? Is that your real response? It's just a meme?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

WOW are you ignorant of true Southern history. The slaves in the South were treated fairly well, considering their rank in society. Besides that only a minority of the wealthiest Southerners even owned slaves.

It's a wonder they actually wanted to be free they were treated so good. :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Being licensed to do business in public means just that, doing business with the public which means adhering to non-discrimination laws. I'd suggest you wise up but I doubt that's possible.


whats with you and avoiding questions? lol
 
Re: Confederate Flag

NOt sure I follow you, I think bigots should be allowed to not sell gay wedding cakes so non-bigots like us know not to enchance those bigots quality of life with our money,

But we have no idea who would or wouldn't sell to gay people/same sex couples/whoever unless they have to tell us.

Take for example the Masterpiece Cakeshop incident. The baker admitted that prior to being reported by the couple, he had refused to serve several same sex couples (I think he was just talking about serving them wedding cakes, but I'm not sure on that fact). Now, many people will not buy anything from him, including opposite sex couples and wedding cakes, but only because they know about his refusal to sell to same sex couples.

I actually don't have an issue with this policy, up to a point. There is a point where such a policy simply becomes to burdensome on those groups, because there is a shortage of people selling that particular product or a shortage of people who are willing to sell to everyone without picking and choosing who they will sell to.

Now, that is why I found it interesting how many people who were anti-public accommodation laws applying to most/all businesses were against that bill/law proposed in some state to do just that, force people to identify their intent to refuse service to certain groups.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

As far as the Confederate flag goes it is an interesting topic. I understand, on one hand, the people who claim they fly it because of their heritage. I believe this is a perfectly valid reason for an individual to fly whatever flag they would like. However, federal and state buildings and property should not be allowed to fly a flag that has such a history of racism that is tied to it. An interesting parallel is one between the Confederate Battle Flag and the Nazi flag with a Swastika on it. On the face this may seem like a totally outrageous claim, but bear with me for a second.

The history of the swastika is actually very different from what modern society sees it as. A simple Google search of the history of the Swastika brings up many reliable sources that say that the swastika is a symbol that was used for thousands of years before Hitler ever adopted it. The word itself actually comes from the Sanskrit word svastika which means "good fortune." Even today the swastika is used in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism as a sacred symbol. However, Hitler and the Nazi's adopted this symbol and used it as a representation of their views. Now we view the Nazi flag, with the ancient symbol of good fortune a swastika on it, as a terrible symbol. If a person were to see someone with a Swastika flag flying in their front yard or painted on their car the next thought that would come to mind is that that person must be a white supremacist. Imagine the outrage that would come if a state had a Swastika flag flying on their capital grounds under the justification that they are proud of their heritage.

The swastika has been hijacked from other people who used it as a symbol of good fortune for centuries before Hitler ever commandeered it for his own purposes, and yet we would never stand for it to be flown on any state or federal building/grounds. Yet we allow the Confederate flag, which regardless of its original meaning was adopted as a stand by segregationists during the Civil Rights movement. So even if the Confederate Battle flag originally had absolutely nothing to do with racism in it's original purpose, the fact still stands that some extremist groups have adopted it and made it a symbol for racism now and as such should not be flown on any state or federal property.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

So you are saying that I am avoiding the question you asked to avoid my question so it's my bad for not answering your question you asked to avoid mine?

There are two different statements at play here. First was your unsupported claim that mere possession of the flag was what led to the beat down. My sarcastic question response to that was the one which mentioned the word "hugs" but never claimed you used that word. Now you're trying to weasel out trying to portray this as an unprovoked attack by making yet another false claim that I indicated you, or someone, said "hugs." This is not my first rodeo with feckless rightwingers. And you're not the first of the last that has tried and failed to slither way from his/her baseless claims.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

...
In 1827, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence and after being THE hub for slave sales for 200 years

Uh, no. Not THE hub, bub. Not by a long. long shot.

slavetrade_zpsyfyh5y6y.jpg


New York finally ended slavery.
Tiny drop in the ocean compared to millions in the South.

New Hampshire...not til 1845.
hah! Slavery was effectively abolished in NH in the 18th century.
In 1840's there was a grand total of one slave in NH.
Pennsylvania, Connecticut...
You really, really don't know your history.

The number of slaves were literally decimal points of the population.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Uh, no. Not THE hub, bub. Not by a long. long shot.

slavetrade_zpsyfyh5y6y.jpg


Tiny drop in the ocean compared to millions in the South.

hah! Slavery was effectively abolished in NH in the 18th century.
In 1840's there was a grand total of one slave in NH.
You really, really don't know your history.

The number of slaves were literally decimal points of the population.

What was the North's Economy like? Agricultural? Industrial?

Which economy type benefited from slavery more?

Which economy type benefited from slavery the least?


You can keep bitching about who had more slaves and who had less.... but until you recognize the economic significance of that debate.... It means absolutely nothing.

And when you do recognize the economic significance.... then you will realize that the difference means little to nothing.


As I stated earlier in the thread..... It was Economy (South) vs Pride (Keeping Union Together). It became Economy (South) vs Morals (North) after Lincoln decided to change his tune to it being a war over the Establishment of slavery.

Everybody.... North South East West... was racist against the negro race during that time period. It wasn't about racism, as all sides were equally racist.

The south became known for racism due to the actions of several groups towards blacks in the south as retaliation for their suffering during the reconstruction period. A lot of blame was placed upon the black population because they were an easy and vulnerable target. This of course, kept the southern racists vocal while the northern ones weren't. Not to mention that more black people live in the south, even TODAY, than in any other region in the US, and therefore, racial incidents were FAR more likely to occur between southern whites and blacks than northern whites and blacks.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

If you can't understand or appreciate how the confederate flag can be viewed as a symbol of racist oppression, even if that's not what it means to you, then i think you are misinformed.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What was the North's Economy like? Agricultural? Industrial?

Which economy type benefited from slavery more?

Which economy type benefited from slavery the least?


You can keep bitching about who had more slaves and who had less.... but until you recognize the economic significance of that debate.... It means absolutely nothing.

And when you do recognize the economic significance.... then you will realize that the difference means little to nothing.


As I stated earlier in the thread..... It was Economy (South) vs Pride (Keeping Union Together). It became Economy (South) vs Morals (North) after Lincoln decided to change his tune to it being a war over the Establishment of slavery.

Everybody.... North South East West... was racist against the negro race during that time period. It wasn't about racism, as all sides were equally racist.

The south became known for racism due to the actions of several groups towards blacks in the south as retaliation for their suffering during the reconstruction period. A lot of blame was placed upon the black population because they were an easy and vulnerable target. This of course, kept the southern racists vocal while the northern ones weren't. Not to mention that more black people live in the south, even TODAY, than in any other region in the US, and therefore, racial incidents were FAR more likely to occur between southern whites and blacks than northern whites and blacks.

While the north and south were both racist, I wouldn't say it was equal.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.

No, that's what it represents. But what do you mean by abolish? From state houses, yes. But people are free to fly whatever they want.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Uh, no. Not THE hub, bub. Not by a long. long shot.

slavetrade_zpsyfyh5y6y.jpg


Tiny drop in the ocean compared to millions in the South.

hah! Slavery was effectively abolished in NH in the 18th century.
In 1840's there was a grand total of one slave in NH.
You really, really don't know your history.

The number of slaves were literally decimal points of the population.
"It's an ugly and long-ignored chapter in the city’s history: A slave market operated for decades in the heart of Wall Street.
The city has never formally acknowledged the human mill that was run at the corner of Wall and Pearl Sts. from 1711 to 1762.
Until now.
Three centuries after the market was established, the city is planning to erect a historic marker commemorating the site.
“It’s beyond past due,” said City Councilman Jumaane Williams (D-Brooklyn), who pushed for the creation of the sign."
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...l-street-slave-market-1700s-article-1.2187091

Its just a LITTLE **** in the brownie. Go ahead and have a big ol piece.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No, that's what it represents. But what do you mean by abolish? From state houses, yes. But people are free to fly whatever they want.

The American flag does NOT represent slavery...

The confederate flag may have meaning other than slavery. Anyone who argues that the confederate flag cannot possibly represent slavery, that it's never been intimidating to african americans, is sorely mistaken. Being a mature, considerate adult means you MUST, inevitably, come to the conclusion that the confederate flag has no place in mainstream, modern-day America.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The American flag does NOT represent slavery...

The confederate flag may have meaning other than slavery. Anyone who argues that the confederate flag cannot possibly represent slavery, that it's never been intimidating to african americans, is sorely mistaken. Being a mature, considerate adult means you MUST, inevitably, come to the conclusion that the confederate flag has no place in mainstream, modern-day America.

It does today.

Why do people believe myths about the Confederacy? Because our textbooks and monuments are wrong. - The Washington Post
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Look how cute you are with your bitter feisty self.
The US DID ban slavery...but not for decades after its formation. In 1827, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence and after being THE hub for slave sales for 200 years, New York finally ended slavery. New Hampshire...not til 1845. Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Jersey...all later (NJ not til 1865).

As for slave history throughout the world...Come on dood...seriously? Is that your real response? It's just a meme?

I am just trying to figure out wth your point is. So far it seems to be that you think you are the only one on the internet that knows how long slavery thrived in the US before we abolished it. That and you think that every nation on the planet at some time had slavery. Im not sure why you want to tell me these things. Are you feeling inspired or do you have a point?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Except the black Southerners. But their opinions only matter about 3/5th's as much as a white Southerner...

Apparently, it's the other way around these days. All the minority political lobby's got to do is stomp their little feet, and we're expected to bend over backwards to appease their easily bruised egos, regardless of what we happen to think on the matter. :roll:
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

Unfortunately, to the rest of the country they just look like racists and aren't fooling anybody except themselves.

Many white southerners realize the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racial hatred for African Americans and are unwilling to adjust their attitude. They like things to stay the same. Unfortunately, the world is changing all around us, so quickly, that same sex marriages are becoming routine. It's about time we did the same thing with racism in the southern states which fly the Confederate Flag by digging our way out of a morass of lies and ignorance.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I am just trying to figure out wth your point is. So far it seems to be that you think you are the only one on the internet that knows how long slavery thrived in the US before we abolished it. That and you think that every nation on the planet at some time had slavery. Im not sure why you want to tell me these things. Are you feeling inspired or do you have a point?
Slavery was practiced throughout history, around the globe, and in virtually every race. Times changed. People changed. The South also would have changed. The north practiced slavery. They stopped primarily because it was no longer economically viable. Just because the north didnt want the south to have slaves didnt mean the north wanted freed slaves there.

point? Everyones history has a bit of stink on it. Relax.
 
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