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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

:lol: You can't be serious? One of the oldest is THE OLDEST if it is... wait for it, THE OLDEST.

My first link has a FAQ: What country was the first to recognize the United States?


Answer: France

:lol:


Then you should have no problem finding one more source to support that one.

Here, let me help get you started....


What was the first country to recognize the United States?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=what+was+the+first+country+to+recognize+the+united+states
 
Last edited:
Re: Confederate Flag

Tell that to Greece. :lamo

Oooooh, Greece! Scaaaaary, huh?

Do you not see the error in your logic? You're implying that if ONE sorta-kinda-first-world nation went economically tango-uniform, then the same thing WILL happen to ALL of them.

But it's not happening to the true first-world nations like America, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, Canada, England, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg...the list goes on.

Whereas ALL nations that have small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation ARE third-world nations.

ALL but one of the first-world nations are not in danger of economic collapse...but ALL of the nations that have the conservative trifecta of small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation ARE in the economic crapper. Really, what more does it take for you to see which system IS working, and which system is NOT working?

The proof's all there for you to see, if you're ever able to pull your head out of the right-wing echo chamber.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Because you keep accusing the left of dishonesty, I just wanted to see how honest you were by posting the truth about slavery just to see if you agreed or disagreed. But you seem to have ignored the link I posted which suggests that you're not very honest yourself.

Proof a good number in the Democratic party thwarted Blacks from receiving full civil rights for over a century is engraved in the history of this country.

When Congress formed the Northwest Ordinance, was voted on by the representation of the thirteen original states, the majority voted to abolish slavery in the territory for the states that would be created from it and later join the union of the thirteen. Ohio was the first state carved out followed by Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. At that point in time several states of the original thirteen had already abolished slavery and that was obvious in the votes their representatives cast. I believe that was in 1787 and the writing was on the wall for the Southern states that the union would be growing with no support for slavery. And with numbers against them growing, they felt the pressure. That is why the first half of the 1800's was filled with race issues and the division lines were forming long before the Civil War began.

You see I did read your link. And sure enough it eluded to the Northwest Ordinance when things got heated up. It also eluded to those from the North traveling to the South to try and convince the people that slavery needed to be abolished. Those who practiced slavery, didn't much appreciate that one either as shown in the link you posted.

So what exactly did I lie about?

That over 2000 Blacks were elected to office including the South during and after Reconstruction? Sorry, that's a well documented fact.
That racial relations improved during and after reconstruction until Woodrow Wilson, Democrat Segregationist was elected president? That he segregated the Federal government for crying outloud! That's historic fact as well.
The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . Segregation in the U. S. Government | PBS
That the Democrat politicians that owned the South during the civil rights movement in the 60's did everything in their power to stop the civil rights bill? Even the Democrat Lyndon Johnson admitted that one.

It is fact that the big segregationists at that time like Al Gore's father who represented Tennessee and Bill Clinton's Arkansas mentor J. William Fulbright who signed the Southern Manifesto a big segregationist, or Senator Sheets Byrd of West Virginia who was some grand poobah of the KKK. All three Democrat Senators who were part of hindering the passage of the civil rights bill. All three have perfect voting records against it.

Maybe it is overdue the Democratic party, apologize for condoning these racists that they tolerated for a century in the name of power in government that drug out so long people of color given all the rights they deserve in this country. Maybe it would be a good time for them to try and stop painting every white person living in the South as a white supremacist and every black conservative an Uncle Tom. Reason? Race baiting is all they have. Their record on race sucks. And because Republicans have a stronghold in the Southern states at this time that Lyndon Johnson foretold when signing the Civil Rights bill what else do they have to throw at it? . There is also a growing number of blacks leaving the Democratic party. Once the barriers were removed keeping black people down in the South, more and more started to experience the American dream. All those Southern states didn't end up with Republican governors without the votes of a good number of blacks.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Not true, in a lot of third world countries the bureaucracy and red tape is even worse than in the US and its so bad that most of the time you need to pay an insider just to get things done.

"Bureaucracy and red tape" do not equal strong regulation - please don't get the two mixed up. Strong regulation is the ability of regulatory agencies to enforce the rules without regard to size or influence of those being regulated. In countries where there is weak regulation, it is as you say - bureaucracy and red tape can be horrendous...unless you pay to bypass all that (which I have done).
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Proof a good number in the Democratic party thwarted Blacks from receiving full civil rights for over a century is engraved in the history of this country.

When Congress formed the Northwest Ordinance, was voted on by the representation of the thirteen original states, the majority voted to abolish slavery in the territory for the states that would be created from it and later join the union of the thirteen. Ohio was the first state carved out followed by Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. At that point in time several states of the original thirteen had already abolished slavery and that was obvious in the votes their representatives cast. I believe that was in 1787 and the writing was on the wall for the Southern states that the union would be growing with no support for slavery. And with numbers against them growing, they felt the pressure. That is why the first half of the 1800's was filled with race issues and the division lines were forming long before the Civil War began.

You see I did read your link. And sure enough it eluded to the Northwest Ordinance when things got heated up. It also eluded to those from the North traveling to the South to try and convince the people that slavery needed to be abolished. Those who practiced slavery, didn't much appreciate that one either as shown in the link you posted.

So what exactly did I lie about?

That over 2000 Blacks were elected to office including the South during and after Reconstruction? Sorry, that's a well documented fact.
That racial relations improved during and after reconstruction until Woodrow Wilson, Democrat Segregationist was elected president? That he segregated the Federal government for crying outloud! That's historic fact as well.
The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . Segregation in the U. S. Government | PBS
That the Democrat politicians that owned the South during the civil rights movement in the 60's did everything in their power to stop the civil rights bill? Even the Democrat Lyndon Johnson admitted that one.

It is fact that the big segregationists at that time like Al Gore's father who represented Tennessee and Bill Clinton's Arkansas mentor J. William Fulbright who signed the Southern Manifesto a big segregationist, or Senator Sheets Byrd of West Virginia who was some grand poobah of the KKK. All three Democrat Senators who were part of hindering the passage of the civil rights bill. All three have perfect voting records against it.

Maybe it is overdue the Democratic party, apologize for condoning these racists that they tolerated for a century in the name of power in government that drug out so long people of color given all the rights they deserve in this country. Maybe it would be a good time for them to try and stop painting every white person living in the South as a white supremacist and every black conservative an Uncle Tom. Reason? Race baiting is all they have. Their record on race sucks. And because Republicans have a stronghold in the Southern states at this time that Lyndon Johnson foretold when signing the Civil Rights bill what else do they have to throw at it? . There is also a growing number of blacks leaving the Democratic party. Once the barriers were removed keeping black people down in the South, more and more started to experience the American dream. All those Southern states didn't end up with Republican governors without the votes of a good number of blacks.

Sorry, but none of what you're posting has anything to do with what I said or the link I posted. Do you want to try again?

Hint: it's the reason the southern states seceded from the union.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Then you should have no problem finding one more source to support that one.

Here, let me help get you started....


What was the first country to recognize the United States?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=what+was+the+first+country+to+recognize+the+united+states

What counts is FORMAL RECOGNITION:

The first U.S. treaty to be signed was a Treaty of Amity and Commerce with France that was signed in Paris on February 6, 1778.

https://history.state.gov/countries/france

Formal U.S. relations with Morocco date from 1787 when the United States Congress ratified a Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the two nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco–United_States_relations

Just admit you are wrong already...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What counts is FORMAL RECOGNITION:

The first U.S. treaty to be signed was a Treaty of Amity and Commerce with France that was signed in Paris on February 6, 1778.

https://history.state.gov/countries/france

Formal U.S. relations with Morocco date from 1787 when the United States Congress ratified a Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the two nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco–United_States_relations

Just admit you are wrong already...

I knew you wouldn't find one.


From your wiki link....it's the sentence that you deliberately left out.....


"...Morocco became the first country to formally recognize the United States as an independent nation.[1]..."


Just admit you're intellectually dishonest....
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Sorry, but none of what you're posting has anything to do with what I said or the link I posted. Do you want to try again?

Hint: it's the reason the southern states seceded from the union.

Oh yes it does have everything to do with what led up to the civil war. And it has everything to do with a century of segregationist Democrats that followed.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Oh yes it does have everything to do with what led up to the civil war. And it has everything to do with a century of segregationist Democrats that followed.

So what did the link say was the reason for seccession?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I knew you wouldn't find one.


From your wiki link....it's the sentence that you deliberately left out.....


"...Morocco became the first country to formally recognize the United States as an independent nation.[1]..."


Just admit you're intellectually dishonest....

That one sentence does not negate the facts or dates. The dates are the dates lady... and you call me intellectually dishonest? :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

That one sentence does not negate the facts or dates. The dates are the dates lady... and you call me intellectually dishonest? :roll:


Yup, that's what you are alright. You can keep proving it if you like, but I'm already convinced.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yup, that's what you are alright. You can keep proving it if you like, but I'm already convinced.

I will just deal with you elsewhere...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So what did the link say was the reason for seccession?

Your dang link was nothing more than a summary of every state in the Confederacy that issued an “Article of Secession” declaring their break from the Union explaining their decision.. Two major themes emerge the right to keep the institution of slavery and states' rights. Several states strongly defend slavery while making varying claims related to states' rights. Other grievances pertained to economics. It was a mixed bag of reasons but the fight to keep slavery alive tends to be the main factor. And leading up to the Civil War, the support for slavery was dwindling. Within those states that wanted to keep slavery there were folks living there who opposed it. All you have to look at is a map of the routes of the Underground Railroad that reach far into the Southern Confederate states to prove that one.

UR%20Escape%202.jpg
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Your dang link was nothing more than a summary of every state in the Confederacy that issued an “Article of Secession” declaring their break from the Union explaining their decision.. Two major themes emerge the right to keep the institution of slavery and states' rights. Several states strongly defend slavery while making varying claims related to states' rights. Other grievances pertained to economics. It was a mixed bag of reasons but the fight to keep slavery alive tends to be the main factor. And leading up to the Civil War, the support for slavery was dwindling. Within those states that wanted to keep slavery there were folks living there who opposed it. All you have to look at is a map of the routes of the Underground Railroad that reach far into the Southern Confederate states to prove that one.

UR%20Escape%202.jpg

She doesn't understand the chronology of dates... how do you expect her to deal with more nuanced concepts?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

There are no racist words on the flags I posted. Even if you drop the words, just use the symbols. Would you support them being flown on government property? The symbol of the black panthers and the confederate flag are comparable. Both represent racism to many. Both represent history and pride for others. These are very directly comparable. If they are not, please let me know how they differ.

I don't believe either flag should be flown from the flag pole at the state capitol.

I just don't believe that the rebel flag is a symbol of racism just because some idiots decided to use it as such.

Next thing you know racists will start hanging out with the American flag in their racist internet podcasts and then going to shoot up the next Rev. Jeremiah Wright style church and we will have to take down the stars and stripes too.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I don't believe either flag should be flown from the flag pole at the state capitol.

I just don't believe that the rebel flag is a symbol of racism just because some idiots decided to use it as such.

Next thing you know racists will start hanging out with the American flag in their racist internet podcasts and then going to shoot up the next Rev. Jeremiah Wright style church and we will have to take down the stars and stripes too.

Has it ever been used in an official capacity that wasn't racist?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Has it ever been used in an official capacity that wasn't racist?

It wasn't even used in an official capacity during the Civil War. It was basically a battle standard to avoid confusing troops because they first were using a flag that looked too much like that of the Union.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It wasn't even used in an official capacity during the Civil War. It was basically a battle standard to avoid confusing troops because they first were using a flag that looked too much like that of the Union.

Exactly - the confederate flag history is more than just the rebel yell that we see today. What we see today didn't even exist in 1860. I've posted this in so many threads now about the confederate flag it's hard to keep track but there is a history to the confederate flag and it doesn't have anything to do with the modified battle standard used today.

Confederate Flag History
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Has it ever been used in an official capacity that wasn't racist?

Yes... When used as the battle flag of the Confederate soldiers in a war against the north.

A war that was fought, yes partly due to the institution of slavery, for which the institution was not important because of "racism" but because of Economics.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Oooooh, Greece! Scaaaaary, huh?

Do you not see the error in your logic? You're implying that if ONE sorta-kinda-first-world nation went economically tango-uniform, then the same thing WILL happen to ALL of them.

But it's not happening to the true first-world nations like America, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, Canada, England, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg...the list goes on.

Whereas ALL nations that have small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation ARE third-world nations.

ALL but one of the first-world nations are not in danger of economic collapse...but ALL of the nations that have the conservative trifecta of small government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation ARE in the economic crapper. Really, what more does it take for you to see which system IS working, and which system is NOT working?

The proof's all there for you to see, if you're ever able to pull your head out of the right-wing echo chamber.

No need to get so huffy. I just pointed out a snag in your reasoning. First, "first nation state" terminology is out of vogue. Second, when it is used, it's often used to point fingers at these nations and claim that they grew not specifically through democracy and capitalism - but due to racism and the formation of underclasses. Third, there is a group of neo-leftists who're trying to bring the term back into vogue. Gawd, I hope they fail.

The truth is - we have a number of threads where we're discussing economics and taxes currently. I don't think this one is appropriate so I'm not going to further derail.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What about the thousands and thousands of slaves that were well treated and better off under slavery than out on their ass with nothing?

What about all the slaves in the north that WEREN'T freed by the Emancipation Proclamation.

Thats right.... Slavery was legal in the north up until after the end of the civil war.... as much as those in the north try to re-write history....

Don't include me in with "those" in the north.. The secession of the south was all about slavery, the economy it provided and the political class that defended it. Was there a large abolitionist movement in the south as there was in the northern?

As for being better off as slaves... No one is better off if they are owned by someone else. I would rather starve and be free than to be "well taken care of" property. Regardless, a few well taken care of slaves does not justifying the atrocities perpetrated on many... Even if one, resulting from systemic slavery.

It truly worries me that you're a cop.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Don't include me in with "those" in the north.. The secession of the south was all about slavery, the economy it provided and the political class that defended it. Was there a large abolitionist movement in the south as there was in the northern?
Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean much considering there wasn't as much of an economic incentive to keep slaves around in the north as there was in the south. However, there was enough of a movement to keep the underground railroad operating... so there is that...

As for being better off as slaves... No one is better off if they are owned by someone else. I would rather starve and be free than to be "well taken care of" property. Regardless, a few well taken care of slaves does not justifying the atrocities perpetrated on many... Even if one, resulting from systemic slavery.

It truly worries me that you're a cop.

Interesting for you to bring up my having been a cop (yes, past tense) as some sort of pathetic excuse for a personal attack....

Because in my experiences, I have seen people who would rather be in jail (no freedom) and be fed than be on the streets (free) and be starving.

So.... while "principle" of your statement is true... and I concur.... however there are many who are actually in such dire straits (not those of us just talking about it) that may not necessarily agree with us.

Unless you've been so downtrodden you don't even know where your next meal is coming from..... you'll never really know.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Don't fret, the American flag will be next, replaced by the Red Army hammer and sickle.

Maybe they'll try to replace it with the Black Panther flag.
 
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