Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

Now who needs reading comprehension skills? I said no such thing. Your experience is your experience. Many more black people report quite different experiences. I'm not claiming your experience isn't valid even though you're desperately trying to put those words into my mouth so you can ride your hobby horse.

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That would be a lie...

digitusmedius said:

From someone who's willfully blind to it.

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You said I was willfully blind to racism. No one put anything in your pie hole.

digitusmedius said:

I was going to ask you if you were one of those blacks who claim that it's still the dem party that's the party of slavery, racism and segregation which is a constant white rightwing refrain these days and that blacks who are now in that party are "still on the plantation," but that's a well worn line and it answers that question. It's a view that ignores all our political history but particularly the last 70 years of it. I don't believe I described your particular situation as self-hating so you either need some reading comprehension skills yourself or it just more straw-man building on your part.

While we're on the subject of reality denial, is this guy one of your heroes: Ben Carson: 'The Whole Purpose' Of Planned Parenthood Is To 'Eliminate Black People' | Right Wing Watch

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This cracks me up. You are batting one thousand here! I am no more a "fan" of Ben Carson, than I am of President Obama. You make really bad assumption and run with it. Then when I call you on it, I am putting words in your mouth. :lamo

digitusmedius said:

Yes it is. So is self-awareness.

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One day maybe you will be.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

There seems to be an echo in this forum.

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No. That is the rock rattling around in your head. :lol:

Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:

I'm sure Zimmerman gave a very convincing account that suggested he had done no wrong.

It's too bad the kid is dead because i'd very much like to hear his side of the story.

If someone was following me, especially the type of guy who carries a loaded gun while looking for trouble at night, i'd be scared, too.

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Exactly. The only account the jury heard was the murderer's in that trial and the same thing for the GJ in the Brown murder. That sure makes it easy for the perp, doesn't it?

Re: Confederate Flag

Ryriena said:

View attachment 67187591 View attachment 67187592 It looks like the sons of union vets supports the confederate flag. :lamo

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Looks like that and $3.50 can get you a latte at Starbucks. Grasping at straws much?

Re: Confederate Flag

Moderator's Warning:

The Zimmerman/Martin stuff stops now. We had a special subforum dedicated to that topic during the trial and for some time after. We shut it down due to excessive flaming and other rule violations. Raising the Z/M issue tends to bring back the same kind of flaming and trolling as we had previously, and is something we don't need, given that it is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Therefore stick to matters actually relevant to the topic. Let me reiterate: The Zimmerman/Martin issue is not the topic of this thread and that stuff will STOP right here and now. Violators will be thread banned or infracted.

Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:

Title of the Act: Public Law 85-425 AN ACT To increase the monthly rates of pension payable to widows and former widows of deceased veterans of the Spanish-American War, Civil War, Indian War, and Mexican War, and provide pensions to widows of veterans who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War."

"For the purposes of this chapter—

(1) The term “Indian Wars” means the campaigns, engagements, and expeditions of the United States military forces against Indian tribes or nations, service in which has been recognized heretofore as pensionable service.
(2) The term “World War I” includes, in the case of any veteran, any period of service performed by such veteran after November 11, 1918, and before July 2, 1921, if such veteran served in the active military, naval, or air service after April 5, 1917, and before November 12, 1918.
(3) The term “Civil War veteran” includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term “active military or naval service” includes active service in those forces.
(4) The term “period of war” means the Mexican border period, World War I, World War II, the Korean conflict, the Vietnam era, the Persian Gulf War, and the period beginning on the date of any future declaration of war by the Congress and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or concurrent resolution of the Congress."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/1501

That would be the chapter under Pensions.

Of which not one Confederate soldier ever rec'd a Federal Pension.

Legally CSA veterans are not US veterans.

Equating those who fought for this country with those who fought against it - is insane.

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And again as was provided to you earlier.

They are US Veterans.

Not only did you not understand what "Definition" meant. But now you are showing your limited understand of what you think "For the purposes of this chapter" means. :doh
It is a status conferred upon them and qualifies them as Veterans as defined by US Code.

Nor does it matter if a soldier was ever was able to claim the pension. That is irrelevant to the status that was conferred upon them. They are US Veterans as recognized by the US Government.


The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. Duh! (for the purposes of this chapter) The Chapter on benefits. Duh!


They are US Veterans. More specifically, of the Civil War. You know, a nation at war with itself. Duh!

Re: Confederate Flag

:laughat:

digitusmedius said:

Thanks for documenting all the racist lies and rationalized post hoc justifications created to justify those two murders. It was a good refresher course.

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:2rofll:
Thank you for again demonstrating that you know not of what you speak.

Re: Confederate Flag

Superfly said:

People need to stop comparing Trayvon Marton to Michael Brown. Brown went after a cop, for Pete's sake, after he strong-armed a store owner.

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I've got disagree "big-time" with that assessment. The only account for the story that Brown "went after" the cop was the cop's. There's another very much more likely explanation for the first gun shot in the cop's vehicle: Wilson pulled out his gun and Brown grabbed for it rather than be shot at close range. After that Brown ran for his life. He was hit at least twice before turning around. He was wounded a 3rd time before Wilson delivered the final shot hitting Brown on the top of his head as Brown was falling forward. The autopsy report indicated that that second to the last shot was disabling to Brown and would likely have been lethal by itself. This action was police fury. The convenience story incident had nothing to do with it as even the FPD said that it hadn't radioed the information to Wilson when Wilson saw Brown. By the time the GJ met Wilson had gotten his story together and in an unprecendented GJ action was allowed to come before the GJ and give his defense unchallenged by anyone representing Brown. It was a travesty. A trial may have cleared Wilson but Brown didn't get to have his day in court.

Re: Confederate Flag

Ahlevah said:

Defending himself from what? A neighborhood watch captain who was following him? Being followed doesn't give you the right to assault someone and try to smash his head into a concrete sidewalk, which is what the forensic evidence in the Zimmerman trial indicated.

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Forensic evidence, my ass. The only "evidence" that Martin did that to Zimmerman (as opposed to Zimmerman doing it to himself to create the victim story) was Zimmerman's word and if we've learned nothing else about that scumbag from the start is what a lying, violent little piece of **** he is. He's left quite a trail of criminal behavior since then. Perfect hero for people like you.

Re: Confederate Flag

Again demonstrating that you know not of what you speak.

Start the topic on these subjects so as to not further derail this one. I am more than sure you will have folks participate showing you where you are wrong.

Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:

....
They are US Veterans.

Not only did you not understand what "Definition" meant. But now you are showing your limited understand of what you think "For the purposes of this chapter" means. :doh
It is a status conferred upon them and qualifies them as Veterans as defined by US Code.

Nor does it matter if a soldier was ever was able to claim the pension. That is irrelevant to the status that was conferred upon them. They are US Veterans as recognized by the US Government.


The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. Duh! (for the purposes of this chapter) The Chapter on benefits. Duh!


They are US Veterans. More specifically, of the Civil War. You know, a nation at war with itself. Duh!

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No. It's been explained to you. Not our fault you can't grasp it.

No Pension benefit was ever paid to confederate soldiers. Even that Veterans.org article does not call them U.S. Veterans.

Play attention the underlined word.

:dohBackatcha.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

Perfect hero for people like you.

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People like me? Why don't you just stop beating around the mod bush, get a pair of balls, and tell the board what you really mean, like this: You're an idiot.

Re: Confederate Flag

Risky Thicket said:

Yes, I've often read where the convicts who settled Australia preferred to be called "Imperialists". Cheeky buggers.

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Who do you think sent the convicts there and for what purpose? BTW, the state of GA was settled by English convicts when the colonies were part of the British empire. That sure explains a lot.

Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:

The prosecution may have simply be unable to prove Zimmerman was a crazy stalker. Notice Zimmerman's name in subsequent news reports? Seems that he's not exactly a stable person.

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Conveniently for Zimmerman, the only other person who could testify to what really happened was dead, murdered by the defendant. Makes for a pretty easy case. The other miscarriage of justice is that the judge allowed the defense to present Zimmerman's alibi pictorially when they examined other witnesses but keep Zimmerman from taking the stand himself. That should not have been allowed. We all knew the prosecution really didn't have its heart in this. The only reason there was a trial at all was due to the public outrage at Zimmerman not even being charged with anything which is how it was first handled.

Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:

No. It's been explained to you.

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No, it has been explained to you and you still can not grasp it.

Paperview said:

No Pension benefit was ever paid to confederate soldiers. Even that Veterans.org article does not call them U.S. Veterans.

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Irrelevant.
Especially as they are Veterans.

Again, the whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes.

Paperview said:

Play attention the underlined word.

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:doh
More irrelevancy. Being a limited benefit doesn't change their status as a veteran. That is an irrelevant and lame claim.
Other Veterans (based on discharge) receive limited benefits and that doesn't change their status as a veteran. Duh!


They were still US citizens (US view point) fighting in the Civil War. And are US Veterans as recognized by the status conferred upon them by the Government.

The only thing you can say is that yes they were given that status for Pension purposes. Which is a higher status than that of a Dishonorable discharged person who receives no benefits.

Re: Confederate Flag

Moderator's Warning:

Did I gorram stutter? I think not. Bans and infractions have already been issued. There will be no more Martin/Zimmerman BS on this thread. Personal attacks will cease. There will be civility or by gosh there will be much wailing, gnashing of teeth and whupping of ass.

Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:

The only thing you can say is that yes they were given that status for Pension purposes. Which is a higher status than that of a Dishonorable discharged person who receives no benefits.

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For the entire time that distinction mattered, no, Confederate veterans were not given "U.S. Veteran" status for pension purposes. Only years after the last Confederate veteran died did someone insert a meaningless gesture into a larger bill increasing benefits for other veterans and it passed, probably because the price tag of $0.00, since there were zero living Confederate veterans at that time.....

I'd love to know which southern Senator or Congressman inserted that bit into the Federal register around the time the civil rights battles were really heating up. :doh

Re: Confederate Flag

JasperL said:

For the entire time that distinction mattered, no, Confederate veterans were not given "U.S. Veteran" status for pension purposes. Only years after the last Confederate veteran died did someone insert a meaningless gesture into a larger bill increasing benefits for other veterans and it passed, probably because the price tag of $0.00, since there were zero living Confederate veterans at that time.....

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Irrelevant. The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. It does not matter if it was a limited benefit or one that no one received. The status was conferred upon them.
Other Veterans (based on discharge) receive limited benefits and that doesn't change their status as a veteran

They were still US citizens (US view point) fighting in the Civil War. And are US Veterans of the Civil War as recognized by the status conferred upon them by the Government.

Re: Confederate Flag

Nobody said they weren't Veterans.

Der.

Not US Veterans.

They fought *against* the U.S.

The very least you could say was they were American Veterans.

Civil War Veterans.

They were not U.S. Veterans.

And it was only, as per that Law, "for the purposes of that Act" -- and Act which conferred to no benefit to a Confederate Soldier --

as they

were

all

DEAD.

Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:

Irrelevant. The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. It does not matter if it was a limited benefit or one that no one received. The status was conferred upon them.
Other Veterans (based on discharge) receive limited benefits and that doesn't change their status as a veteran

They were still US citizens (US view point) fighting in the Civil War. And are US Veterans of the Civil War as recognized by the status conferred upon them by the Government.

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Well, no, they weren't "U.S. Veterans." Those guys tried to kill "U.S. Veterans" during the war. The law said, "For purposes of pensions, the NONE, ZERO, NADA living Confederate veterans get the same benefits AS U.S. Veterans.

Sec. 1501 says they are considered "Civil War Veterans" which is undoubtedly true, and benefits paid out to them from this elevated status was $0.00.

Besides, what you're demanding is because the Congress made an empty gesture (presumably of good will) that the gesture is the last word on anything of any relevance to this discussion. I feel no desire or need to denigrate the Southern soldiers on the ground who fought and died in a war of someone else's choosing.

But how does that relate to the cause of the secessionists in the Civil War? Or more relevant in my view, how does recognizing Confederates as "Civil War Veterans" affect the history of the Rebel flag in the 1940s -1960s as a banner under which opponents of civil rights for blacks protested?

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

Who do you think sent the convicts there and for what purpose? BTW, the state of GA was settled by English convicts when the colonies were part of the British empire. That sure explains a lot.

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Actually, Georgia was settled under George Oglethorpe initially with volunteer settlers who came from South Carolina, though some land grants included settlers from Ireland.

Opps sorry didn't see mod

Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:

Nobody said they weren't Veterans.

Der.

Not US Veterans.

They fought *against* the U.S.

The very least you could say was they were American Veterans.

Civil War Veterans.

They were not U.S. Veterans.

And it was only, as per that Law, "for the purposes of that Act" -- and Act which conferred to no benefit to a Confederate Soldier --

as they

were

all

DEAD.

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Wrong.

Again.
The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. It does not matter if it was a limited benefit or one that no one received. The status was conferred upon them.
Other Veterans (based on discharge) receive limited benefits and that doesn't change their status as a veteran

They were still US citizens (US view point) fighting in a Civil War. And are US Veterans of the Civil War as recognized by the status conferred upon them by the Government.
While the US does distinguish which war was fought in there is no such distinguishment of that which you are arguing. All are US Veterans by virtue of the Government conferring said statues.

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JasperL said:

Well, no, they weren't "U.S. Veterans."

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:naughty
Again, US citizens. Veteran status conferred upon them by the US Government for the Purpose of US Veteran Benefits.
Yes, they were US Veterans of the Civil War.
The US distinguishes the Wars fought in, but the status is that if a US Veteran. No such distinction that you are arguing exists.

JasperL said:

Those guys tried to kill "U.S. Veterans" during the war.

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During the war? iLOL :doh No they didn't.
We are talking about a status conferred upon a person by virtue of their previous service for the purpose of benefits.
Not an in-general use of the word veteran.
Your Veteran status for benefit purposes comes after service.

JasperL said:

The law said, "For purposes of pensions,

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You are just arguing i circles now.
Again
Irrelevant. The whole purpose of being labeled a Veteran by the Government is for benefit purposes. It does not matter if it was a limited benefit or one that no one received. The status was conferred upon them.
Other Veterans (based on discharge) receive limited benefits and that doesn't change their status as a veteran

They were still US citizens (US view point) fighting in the Civil War. And are US Veterans of the Civil War as recognized by the status conferred upon them by the Government.

JasperL said:

the NONE, ZERO, NADA living Confederate veterans get the same benefits AS U.S. Veterans.

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Irrelevant to the status conferred upon them.

JasperL said:

how does recognizing Confederates as "Civil War Veterans" affect the history of the Rebel flag in the 1940s -1960s as a banner under which opponents of civil rights for blacks protested?

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Maybe you should have paid attention to the origins of the argument in this thread? :shrug:
But since you didn't -
They are US Civil War Veterans being Honored at a US Memorial of the Civil war. That is more than an appropriate place for the Rebel flag to fly.

Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:

Maybe you should have paid attention to the origins of the argument in this thread? :shrug:
But since you didn't -
They are US Civil War Veterans being Honored at a US Memorial of the Civil war. That is more than an appropriate place for the Rebel flag to fly.

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I'd address the first part, but you'll just repeat the same arguments so there's no point.

As to this part, I have no idea what it means to be a "US Civil War Veteran." Do you mean they're veterans of the Civil War fought in the U.S. as opposed to on some other continent? If so, OK, I'll concede that point. And it's not a "U.S. Memorial." It's on state property and I have seen nothing to indicate the Feds funded a dime of the cost.

And we disagree about whether a Confederate memorial is an "appropriate place for the Rebel flag to fly." The SC legislature, Governor, the local Chamber of Commerce and many others decided it wasn't an appropriate place to fly that divisive symbol. Apparently 54 years of controversy was enough. They might be stubborn in the South, but they're not stupid, especially when being stubborn interferes with bidness.....

Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:

...
They are US Civil War Veterans being Honored at a US Memorial of the Civil war. That is more than an appropriate place for the Rebel flag to fly.

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^ doesn't recognize the irony.