View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #691
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    What? Grant owned a single slave, William Jones, from his father in law Colonel Dent. He freed his slave in 1859. This is an irrelevancy. Furthermore, Grant was one of the most aggressive supporters of the post-war Civil Rights cause.

    As for the Fugitive Slave Act... because it was the law? Though there was a strong faction committed to overturning the law the fear of a national split over the issue prevented any further moves.

    And votes in Congress, lol, the South wasn't and isn't a nation. This is like claiming that Wyoming is being bullied because it doesn't have as many representatives as California. Welcome to a Representative Democracy.

    Lincoln was committed to the abolition of slavery before he even took office. Lincoln was certainly a moderate within the Republican Party but he nevertheless had a clear position and plan which he outlined at the Republican National Convention where he called for the immediate halt to the expansion of slavery and the creation of a system of monetary compensation to slave owners in order to begin the gradual process of abolition. On the fundamental difference between North and South Lincoln stated on numerous occasions that "You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted".

    As President, Lincoln consistently differentiated between what he termed "my view of official duty" which took the form of doing nearly anything he could to prevent his country from falling apart. However he never wavered in his belief that slavery was wrong and that it ought to be abolished.

    To the point "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel this way."
    Actually if Grant helped anyone it was the Lee family. He threatened to leave his then fairly high ranking government job if the wrong against the Lee family was not righted. Thankfully it was, but by the time it was the damage was already done. Grant's wife had been quoted as saying that she would never free her slaves because "good help is just too hard to find." I guess if your state wasn't having an equal say you would be upset also. That is one reason we have the electoral college in place.
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by digitusmedius View Post
    How does that excuse the South fighting not just to keep slavery but extend it into the new territories and states? But thanks for the laugh.
    Laugh at truth, but that's your problem, not mine. Reality is what it is.
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  3. #693
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by digitusmedius View Post
    No, just saying it doesn't make it true. Reading the secession declarations of those states does, though. It's either the only or the first item of their specific reason for seceding....i.e., the threat of the abolition of slavery.
    And no matter how many times people reprint the direct and plain words of southern state governments making it crystal clear that the preservation of slavery was a key reason - if not THE key reason for their actions, the far right here and the confederate apologists will find a way to stay firm and comfortable in their self imposed mental delusions that it was about some age idea of FREEDOM and LIBERTY.

    Its pretty hopeless.
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Which is a euphemism of saying that slavery was the cause of the war. Absent slavery there would have been no secession and no conflict.
    It's not a euphemism - it's the truth. Slavery connected all the issues because slavery was the means of production in the South at the time. However, if you asked someone from the North or South in 1861 if the war was all about slaves they'd laugh at you. Even the North in the mid-1800's did not see black slaves as men or women. Slavery was not the flashpoint - it was economics, taxes, states rights, etc., and slavery was connected to all those things.

    The root causes of the Civil War can be broken down into States Rights, Slavery, Political and Economic considerations. Slavery, while listed as a separate cause, had significant influence on the other three. An understanding of the above influences of the time will reveal, however, that slavery, while factoring into the various causes in different degrees, should not be considered the sole cause of the Civil War.
    Overview
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Lol sure...
    Yes I am sure. Plenty of history has been taken completely out of context, current actions prove that to be true
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  6. #696
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And no matter how many times people reprint the direct and plain words of southern state governments making it crystal clear that the preservation of slavery was a key reason - if not THE key reason for their actions, the far right here and the confederate apologists will find a way to stay firm and comfortable in their self imposed mental delusions that it was about some age idea of FREEDOM and LIBERTY.

    Its pretty hopeless.
    Yeah its hopeless to convince those of us who know the truth that the revisionist version is true
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  7. #697
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    No. It was entirely about slavery. It was about economics, the economics of an agricultural system underpinned by slavery. It was about politics, the politics of slavery. It was about states rights, the states right to protect slavery. It was about the imbalance of political power, between slave states and free states. Every single issue that is drawn up to deflect away from slavery is itself invariably rooted in the issue of slavery.
    Do yourself a favor, read The South Was Right. It will enlighten you
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  8. #698
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Actually if Grant helped anyone it was the Lee family. He threatened to leave his then fairly high ranking government job if the wrong against the Lee family was not righted. Thankfully it was, but by the time it was the damage was already done. Grant's wife had been quoted as saying that she would never free her slaves because "good help is just too hard to find." I guess if your state wasn't having an equal say you would be upset also. That is one reason we have the electoral college in place.
    Um... ok? What does this have to do with anything? I suppose I'm glad Grant helped the Lee family and freed his slave.

  9. #699
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Do yourself a favor, read The South Was Right. It will enlighten you
    Oh my god the James Kennedy book? This is all starting to make a lot more sense.

  10. #700
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's not a euphemism - it's the truth. Slavery connected all the issues because slavery was the means of production in the South at the time. However, if you asked someone from the North or South in 1861 if the war was all about slaves they'd laugh at you. Even the North in the mid-1800's did not see black slaves as men or women. Slavery was not the flashpoint - it was economics, taxes, states rights, etc., and slavery was connected to all those things.



    Overview
    No, they wouldn't have laughed at me. It was widely understood that slavery was the underlying theme which tied the entirety of the animus between North and South together. Furthermore you are right it was about economics, the economics of slavery. It was about taxes and tariffs, taxes and tariffs which impacted the finances of a slave based agricultural export economy. It was about states rights, a states right to protect the institution of slavery. Absent slavery there would have been no conflict.

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