View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #651
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    The North was not innocent of this. In fact, "No Irish or Dogs need apply." The north was horrifically racist for a VERY long time. Slavery wasn't a danger to their liberty. It was a danger to their pocket books. The only reason the north didn't remain the way it was...was because the green back was more important than the skin color.

    I would even argue that the move westward is the proof that slavery was crippling to the pocket book of middle class voters and business owners and farmers. They wouldn't gain money from slavery. They were still racist to Blacks. They just cared more about money.
    Racist =/= Slavery. No one has ever argued that the North was a paragon of racial virtue. Nevertheless the Northern states abolished slavery, generally opposed its expansion, and many allowed or began the process of extending the franchise to free blacks.

  2. #652
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Racist =/= Slavery. No one has ever argued that the North was a paragon of racial virtue. Nevertheless the Northern states abolished slavery, generally opposed its expansion, and many allowed or began the process of extending the franchise to free blacks.
    I wasn't saying racism and slavery are equal. I was more highlighting the whole "white supremacy" aspect. To say it was setup as such is kind of a statement that can be applied to any white dominated society of the time. Even enfranchisement the blacks didn't mean much. I would even go so far as to call it "token." Given how the North treated black troops, and the men who lead them. And that went on for a long time in the military (Black Jack Pershing is a good example of what happened to men who lead black units...his name from west point was even less PC).
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  3. #653
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    So it is your contention that the South seceded because it was being 'taxed to death' as the result of war debts incurred from the War of 1812? I would love to hear an explanation for that line of reasoning. Further, no slavery was not 'widespread' throughout the North. In the years immediately preceding the Civil War slavery had been abolished in every northern state except for Delaware and Maryland. Finally, the entire Republican Party had its genesis in opposition to Slavery, the expansion of 'Free State' boundaries and the eventual rollback and abolition of slavery. That in the 1850's people were simultaneously anti-slavery and bigoted shouldn't be shocking nor does it have any bearing on the issue.
    Slavery only became an issue when the yankees were getting their behinds kicked and Europe was gonna intervene and take the South's side. It was never a major issue before
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  4. #654
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Racist =/= Slavery. No one has ever argued that the North was a paragon of racial virtue. Nevertheless the Northern states abolished slavery, generally opposed its expansion, and many allowed or began the process of extending the franchise to free blacks.
    Expect Delaware and Maryland.

  5. #655
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    So it is your contention that the South seceded because it was being 'taxed to death' as the result of war debts incurred from the War of 1812? I would love to hear an explanation for that line of reasoning. Further, no slavery was not 'widespread' throughout the North. In the years immediately preceding the Civil War slavery had been abolished in every northern state except for Delaware and Maryland. Finally, the entire Republican Party had its genesis in opposition to Slavery, the expansion of 'Free State' boundaries and the eventual rollback and abolition of slavery. That in the 1850's people were simultaneously anti-slavery and bigoted shouldn't be shocking nor does it have any bearing on the issue.
    Then why did Grant own slaves? Even if he freed his his wife had no intention of doing that. If the north was so anti slavery, then why were escaped slaves captured and returned under the Fugitive Slave Act? Also is it that hard for you to understand that the yankees were the ones who had the votes in Congress? The South was pretty much bullied until they couldn't take it anymore. And contrary to myth, Lincoln had no intention of freeing slaves. None. All he wanted was to keep the South from exercising their right to secede whether slavery existed or not.
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  6. #656
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Neither the CSA (their primary cause for leaving was slavery, a slowly dying institution economically and morally- even in the American south) nor the USA (pursuing a power poltics dispute "all or nothing" style) were justified.

    In the end, however, it was the Union that launched an illegal war of aggression against states either taking a constitutionally permissable course of action, or who in some cases were sympathetic to others doing so and in other cases, might have potentially seceeded.
    You sound pretty set in your pro-secessionist beliefs. Myself I am pretty set in my pro-USA beliefs.

  7. #657
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    That's like saying the colonists had no right to break away from England. Just as silly
    No it is not like saying that, but thank you for your input.

  8. #658
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You sound pretty set in your pro-secessionist beliefs. Myself I am pretty set in my pro-USA beliefs.
    Yes, that is true.

    Ironically, though I was born in Baltimore (arguably a southeren city at the time) I have never considered myself southeren. Rather, I just support of the CSA's position regarding secession as being academically correct.

  9. #659
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    The North was not innocent of this. In fact, "No Irish or Dogs need apply." The north was horrifically racist for a VERY long time. Slavery wasn't a danger to their liberty. It was a danger to their pocket books. The only reason the north didn't remain the way it was...was because the green back was more important than the skin color.

    I would even argue that the move westward is the proof that slavery was crippling to the pocket book of middle class voters and business owners and farmers. They wouldn't gain money from slavery. They were still racist to Blacks. They just cared more about money.
    The Irish who moved here after they were starved out of Ireland and came to the NYC area were treated like ****. I'm descended through my mother from those people. They were banned from stores, jobs, schools, even parks and city streets. I did a lot of research with my sister and my cousin and we were pretty shocked by what we learned about our great grandparents and back. For some odd reason it isn't chic to talk about how mistreated the Irish were in the north.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    No it is not like saying that, but thank you for your input.
    So you think ol' King George was happy with Washington and company when the Brits sailed back in defeat? Somehow I seriously doubt that
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