View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #541
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    There is no escaping that the United States was fundamentally a slave system.
    No, not entirely, there was a definite wave of thought and actions defined in the USC to eliminate slavery. The Nation, it symbols and laws changed from that Colonial holdover.

    The Confederacy was created because the central government of the U.S. no longer had the consent of those in the South to govern them.
    Again, this does not negate the fact that the Confederacy was based on the fundamental policy of slavery.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #542
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes... by saying, "Its obvious"
    Again, you have decided to ignore the answer(s).


    "Its Obvious" isn't articulating anything.
    That is not all that I wrote, ignoring the rest is not debate.

    Why do you think people found it "legitimate" because it was on a state flagpole?
    I did not say it was legitimized because it was "on a flagpole", this is called straw, you are now not only ignoring what I wrote, you are putting words in my mouth. This is not debate.



    Hilarious.... You are making absolutist rhetoric by saying, "Its obvious" as your reasoning.
    again, you ignore the reasons, this is not debate.

    You have failed to explain how this will improve race relations.
    You don't get to ignore responses and then declare anything, that is not how debate works.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #543
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Then if it is a "no brainer" you should be able to articulate this.... right?


    So I ask again....

    How is this going to improve race relations?

    Are people suddenly going to be less racist?

    Are people who feel that the entire world around them is racist going to suddenly stop finding racism in every action or word?


    If the answer to both of those questions is no....then what is this doing for race relations... exactly?
    What is displaying the Confederate battle flag on public buildings going to do for race relations?

  4. #544
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No, since the govt that is represented has changed. Even the flag has changed. The Confederate govt never did change its fundamental position.
    Wait - up until 2 years ago, the US oppressed Iraqi's and Afghani's and killed their people indiscriminately. The American flag hasn't changed since 1958 as far as I know.

    California Students Flag 'Old Glory' As Symbol Of Oppression [Video]

    So I reiterate.... why shouldn't the Stars and Stripes be banned as well since the US has oppressed others since Korea and Vietnam.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #545
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    The American Flag has been altered since it's days of overt oppression.
    We've overtly oppressed the VIetnamese, the Iraqi's, the Afghani's, Libyans.... the flag hasn't changed since 1958.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #546
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No, not entirely, there was a definite wave of thought and actions defined in the USC to eliminate slavery. The Nation, it symbols and laws changed from that Colonial holdover.

    Again, this does not negate the fact that the Confederacy was based on the fundamental policy of slavery.
    If that is what your liberal revisionist history lessons have taught you.

    The Confederacy was based upon the fundamental principle of government deriving its power from the CONSENT of the Governed. The southern states decided the U.S. Federal Government no longer had their consent to govern them. And the U.S. Federal Government fought a war to force itself upon them without their consent, meanwhile burning, raping, pillaging, and looting its cities. But... you know.... if it was in the name of "getting rid of slavery" (not the original intent of the war mind you) then it was okay with you.

    When I view the Confederacy... I do it by ignoring the slavery aspect and taking a look at the greater political message that it taught us......... that we no longer have a weak central government and each state is no longer sovereign as intended, we are subservient to a king by another name.

  7. #547
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What is displaying the Confederate battle flag on public buildings going to do for race relations?
    Absolutely nothing. And I have agreed that it should be removed from all state flag poles. If that is what the people of that state wish.

    However, people thinking it is going to change a damned thing are delusional.

    It is political gesturing... nothing more.

  8. #548
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are asking how will the removal of a symbol deeply associated with a slave system of Blacks from display by a state govt reduces animosity of Blacks towards state govt? That should be self evident. Further, the elimination of state sponsored displays of a symbol of institutional racism decreases the legitimacy of its use by extremists. That should be self evident too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Since I said "it is self evident" that those who have seen it as a source of conflict for long time have been working to eliminate it....again, the question of how it reduces the animosity....should be a no brainer.

    I suppose that since your argument is based on the ignorance of the history of the the resurgence of the use of this flag, it would be easy to to portray this as "idiocy"....not to mention ironic to boot.

    I'm afraid that trying to explain to why it was a source of fear for a large portion of the population is pointless, let alone why it would cause animosity among this same population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I did, i have, over and over.


    Already answered, ignoring the point does not negate it. Ignoring points, facts is not a legit dialectic technique.

    Probably not, but it removes another bit of legitimization of the symbol.

    Absolutist rhetoric is pointless.


    Already answered, ignoring the responses is not debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, you have decided to ignore the answer(s).


    That is not all that I wrote, ignoring the rest is not debate.

    I did not say it was legitimized because it was "on a flagpole", this is called straw, you are now not only ignoring what I wrote, you are putting words in my mouth. This is not debate.



    again, you ignore the reasons, this is not debate.

    You don't get to ignore responses and then declare anything, that is not how debate works.
    So.... with that recap...... you want to admit that you haven't articulated **** beyond "Its self evident"

    Im sorry... but saying, "Because We Liberal Who Control This Conversation Say So" isn't explaining jack diddly ****.

    Your gonna have to try harder.... there is this little thing called multi-quote... makes it kinda easy to point out your BS.

  9. #549
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What is displaying the Confederate battle flag on public buildings going to do for race relations?
    And that is the core point. Though I am convicnmed that the CSA's view of the federal govement matches that of the founding fathers (confederation of autonomous states), the CSA battle flag was flown at state houses or added to state flags simply to piss off blacks.

    CSA battle flags flown over, or very close to state houses do nothing for race relationships. Though the government is not obligated to enhance or "enhance" race relationships, it should neither go out of the way to damage them. Flying the flag over a state house represents the state. In short, the CSA flag should be removed from state houses, though not from state war memorials, historical parks. Likewise, all forts schools etc. named for CSA figures should stay as is.

  10. #550
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What is displaying the Confederate battle flag on public buildings going to do for race relations?
    Removing it does what? For those in this country who are still ruled by an ignorant hatred of people of another color it will not change anything. They are still going to hate, they are still going to fly it in their yard or on their vehicle and for those who do so out of a pride in their southern heritage and ancestry will be lumped into the "ignorant racist" category.

    When people give in to the race baiters and hate mongers who want to create controversy over a piece of cloth they are doing nothing more than taking the easy way out. That is how the left is winning, call someone a racist or a homophobe and they quickly give in to what ever silly request you have.

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