View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #1491
    Educator HorseLoverGirl's Avatar
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Keep posting because others will still read it. I wouldn't have known that Robert E. Lee said the country was intended to be a "perpetual union" if you, or I think it was you, hadn't posted it. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're efforts are not in vain.
    So in other words you told him to be a parrot. Gotcha
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  2. #1492
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So, by saying this...

    You agree it is prudent in a time of war/rebellion to burn the civilian populations homes, steal their food and belongings, murder and rape their women and children???



    You disgust me.
    Seriously! The way some of these people talk I'm surprised we don't have a state of sherman. UGH
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  3. #1493
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    More? October 1856: LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE

    -- New York Times, quoting a Richmond, VA paper

    ...where future secessionists threaten war and the evil of "Black Republicanism" (their term for those with Abolitionist sentiments) are castigated, and they predict, nay - taunt, the coming bloodbath.



    It begins:

    "The Southern political Press has never been more open and frank in its avowal of political purposes and plans, than it is during the present canvass.

    The triumphs of Slavery during the past four years,--the successful repeal of the Missouri Compromise, a measure for which oven Mr. CALHOUN never dared to hope,--
    and the ready, eager promptitude with which the Democratic party at Cincinnati yielded to the exactions of the Slaveholding power, seemed to have inspired the political leaders of the South with the belief, that time has come when they can safely and even with advantage to themselves, make open proclamation of the projects they have in store for the future.

    ....We invite attention to the following lead editorial from Richmond (
    the NY Times here quotes from the Southern paper) where Southerners state: "'Tis treason to cry "Peace!" "peace!" when there is no peace. There is, there can be, no peace, no lasting union between the south and Black Republicanism."
    And they go on:
    Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back

    ....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within, will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people."

    ..


    ",...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity, licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by Union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood..."

  4. #1494
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    So in other words you told him to be a parrot. Gotcha
    Says the little lady who parrots her granddaddy. I told her I liked her posts because she posts historical documented facts from the war period itself.....and not some romanticized version told to an eight year old by a granddaddy who wasn't even there.

  5. #1495
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    More? October 1856: LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE

    -- New York Times, quoting a Richmond, VA paper

    ...where future secessionists threaten war and the evil of "Black Republicanism" (their term for those with Abolitionist sentiments) are castigated, and they predict, nay - taunt, the coming bloodbath.



    It begins:

    "The Southern political Press has never been more open and frank in its avowal of political purposes and plans, than it is during the present canvass.

    The triumphs of Slavery during the past four years,--the successful repeal of the Missouri Compromise, a measure for which oven Mr. CALHOUN never dared to hope,--
    and the ready, eager promptitude with which the Democratic party at Cincinnati yielded to the exactions of the Slaveholding power, seemed to have inspired the political leaders of the South with the belief, that time has come when they can safely and even with advantage to themselves, make open proclamation of the projects they have in store for the future.

    ....We invite attention to the following lead editorial from Richmond (
    the NY Times here quotes from the Southern paper) where Southerners state: "'Tis treason to cry "Peace!" "peace!" when there is no peace. There is, there can be, no peace, no lasting union between the south and Black Republicanism."
    And they go on:
    Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back

    ....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within, will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people."

    ..


    ",...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity, licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by Union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood..."
    Here we go again. Didn't you already post this? Do you know the meaning of the word SPAM?
    Life is short, ride a horse

  6. #1496
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Here we go again. Didn't you already post this? Do you know the meaning of the word SPAM?
    What did it say? How do you know it's spam if you didn't read it?

    Wow, did you know that the south threatened to ally with Cuba and Russia if they couldn't expand slavery into the north and all of the new territories? See, you learn something new everyday?
    Last edited by Moot; 07-11-15 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #1497
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by digitusmedius View Post
    You mean that silly event like the cold blooded murder of 9 black men and women in their church by a white supremacist? That sort of "cause driven" action? Wow. Just WOW.
    1 tragic event. And rather than celebrate an incredible healing action and powerful demonstration of love and forgiveness offered by the families of the victims, people seized on a tragedy yet again to promote their cause and in the process have created and fomented further hatred. Well done? Wow? No ****. Wow.

  8. #1498
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    I have actually found out some things that I was never taught. For instance I was reading an article in one of my UDC magazines before I gave them away to a friend of mine who either he or his wife is a descendant of General Lee. Anyway they were talking about how Arlington Cemetery came to be, and that when the government stole the land from the Lee family, Grant, surprisingly, was the one who insisted that the land and home be returned, even if he had to quit his high ranking job. Ultimately the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Lee family, but by then the damage was already done. The Lee family was forced to sell the land back to the government and now it is Arlington National Cemetery. There is something I was never taught about Grant. My granddaddy hated the guy, never acknowledged one good thing he did, ever. Sure he was a drunk piece of work for most of the war, but he did manage to do something right. Well 2 things right. He rode a beautiful American Saddlebred horse named Cincinnati. Saddlebreds are the most beautiful horses on earth.
    Lee did try to do his best - by the standards of the time - to be an honorable man...but compare that to the lives of each and every slave whose status as slaves his side was fighting for. Lee had land that was taken from him rightly or wrongly...but the slaves could not hold land at all - how could property own property?

    Remember, my own Southern heritage is deeper than most. I knew then as now how courageous the rebel soldiers were, how man-for-man they tended to be better soldiers, better shots than those on the Union side. But that does not make right what they were fighting for. There are courageous, honorable soldiers and generals on every side in every war, but that does. not. make. right. what they were fighting for. There was a time when I would have defended the Confederacy just as strongly as you try to...but now that I've learned from the words of the Confederates' leaders themselves what the Confederacy really stood for, I now see that what the Confederacy stood for is indefensible, abhorrent, a true crime against humanity.

    To be sure, the North's hands were not entirely clean - but while you yourself can point to the North's sometimes halfhearted approach to abolition of slavery, that WAS the reason the South seceded - to preserve the institution of slavery. That single fact - that the South was fighting to preserve slavery - overrides anything the North did wrong. If you want to commemorate the rebels who fought, then do so - but at the same time, remember that even in the eyes of much of the developed world at the time, the Confederates were fighting to preserve and perpetuate a crime against humanity.

    Texas is a great example. Mexico had abolished slavery in 1830 - and at the time they still ruled Texas. So what did the Texans do? They made the blacks into 'serfs'. Then in 1836, when Texas fought for and gained their independence, what was among the first things they did? They reestablished slavery.

    Even in Mexico, slavery had been abolished. In all of developed Europe, and even in Mexico.

    I understand your pride in your heritage - for I had that same pride. But it was badly misplaced pride, borne of that all-too-common desire of the defeated (because the Confederacy was indeed defeated) to preserve their identity and their pride. There's nothing wrong with praising the courage and skill of the Confederate soldiers and their generals...but there's everything wrong with trying to commemorate what they were fighting for, for what they were fighting for was slavery.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  9. #1499
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
    Well I'm certainly learning to hate and fear over the past few years. It's not my parents doing the teaching though.
    Something to remember: people of all nations, all societies are racist...BUT in every instance, the racism committed by the dominant race is more egregious than that committed by the 'lesser' races.

    Look beyond your community, your country. If you can, travel overseas a bit, and perhaps you'll learn what I did - that (after allowing for cultural mores and traditions and education) people really are the same all over the world. They really are. Remember that.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #1500
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Says the little lady who parrots her granddaddy. I told her I liked her posts because she posts historical documented facts from the war period itself.....and not some romanticized version told to an eight year old by a granddaddy who wasn't even there.
    Yeah war vets always lie huh? I doubt they told my granddaddy and his Benedictine company anything that wasn't true.
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