View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #1421
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Secession = revolution. There, fixed it for ya.
    The South was trying to overthrow the US government?

  2. #1422
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    No there is plenty of reason the Confederate flag should fly in the South. It is our heritage. Sadly some want to do away with our heritage.
    Or perhaps it would be better if you read what Alexander Stephens - the Vice President of the Confederacy - had to say in his famous "Cornerstone" speech:

    The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

    . . . look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws.


    That's right - read it again: "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

    That, ma'am, is OUR Southern heritage, yours and mine. You didn't know that, did you? Don't feel bad - I didn't either until not long ago (relatively speaking). So here's your choice: are you going to continue to honor what you believe to be your Southern heritage? Or are you going to accept what it really was, and reject it as I have?

    Don't get me wrong - I miss a lot of things about where I grew up - the land, the weather, the food, oh, man, do I miss the food. But I know my heritage for what it really was, and it is not an object of pride, but of shame.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #1423
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I grew up in the very deepest of the Deep South, in the MS Delta, in a house surrounded by cotton and soybean fields, with my direct family line in the local Southern Baptist church going all the way back to the 1870's. I'll be the first in the line not buried there.

    In other words, I know very, very well what Southern heritage is - I know it better than most. I grew up honoring my Southern heritage, lived it, and loved it...until I came to understand what it lly was, and what that flag (I owned one) really stood for.

    For instance, do you really know why the Confederate flag was flying there at the S.C. capitol? From The Atlantic:

    In 1988, Lee Atwater, the tactician of racial politics in a very different Republican Party, gave me a tour of the State House at Columbia, South Carolina. I was there as a reporter for the Washington Post. Standing in the rotunda under the dome he showed off the monumental statute of John C. Calhoun, godfather of secession, and then pointed out the window to the Confederate flag. It had been flying there since 1962, an emblem of resistance to the civil rights movement.

    “You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Ni**er, ni**er, ni**er,’” Atwater had explained to the political scientist Alexanders Lamis back in 1981. “By 1968 you can’t say ‘nigger’—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes …”


    It had only been flying there since 1962 - but NOT in the previous 97 years. And why was it raised? As an emblem of resistance to the Civil Rights Movement. Have you read Mississippi's Declaration of Secession? Perhaps you should - there's a reason why it's not shown to students there as a part of high school state history.
    Figures the yankees rewrote the history books. They proved that old saying "to the victors go the spoils" to be 100% truth. Of course you realize that Mississippi was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment right?
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  4. #1424
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Figures the yankees rewrote the history books. They proved that old saying "to the victors go the spoils" to be 100% truth. Of course you realize that Mississippi was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment right?
    Ah yes, everything we know as historical fact about the Civil War is just a northern lie. Typical confederate apologist twaddle.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #1425
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Ah yes, everything we know as historical fact about the Civil War is just a northern lie. Typical confederate apologist twaddle.
    You would be surprised just how much of it has been twisted. Especially that Hollywood twister Gettysburg. I watched it with my granddaddy and he pointed out everything wrong in the movie compared to how it actually was. It was a lot. Then again Hollywood shines their own light on true stories to attract people to the theaters.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  6. #1426
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Your attempt to pretty up your little insurrection is duly noted and summarily dismissed. Lemme guess, slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War, did it?
    In other words you dismiss the truth.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  7. #1427
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    They made it more than clear that when they acceded to the union they had the right to secede from the union. Had they not made that right clear, they would likely have formed their own country sooner.
    Show (link) us the documents where they claimed that right.

  8. #1428
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Bingoooooo!


  9. #1429
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    You would be surprised just how much of it has been twisted. Especially that Hollywood twister Gettysburg. I watched it with my granddaddy and he pointed out everything wrong in the movie compared to how it actually was. It was a lot. Then again Hollywood shines their own light on true stories to attract people to the theaters.
    Gee, Hollywood took artistic license. Shocking. That's also not a history book, Horsie.

    Unless you're about 100 years old, your grandfather wasn't around back then. The fact that you think his words trump a century and a half of historical evidence and analysis is utterly laughable.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  10. #1430
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    In other words you dismiss the truth.
    I dismiss the anecdotes you are trying to pass off as trumping actual work by actual historians.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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