View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #1051
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not all of them, no. They were divided greatly on how much power the states should have in comparison to the federal government. But there is also the other aspect of how much power the states should have over their people, in comparison to individual rights. That is the problem we see.

    Plus, the Founders also recognized that this nation would change and put in place a mechanism to change the Constitution along with those changes, as we did, which gave much of the states' power originally perceived by the Founders back to where many preferred it, in the hands of the people, enforced by the federal government backed by the Constitution.
    Government has too much power, at any level. We might as well face it.
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  2. #1052
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Government has too much power, at any level. We might as well face it.
    No matter what kind of government you have, this will be true. I'd rather have citizens' rights protected by all of them though, especially when there are lots of people out there more than willing to use majority opinion to oppress others, which is much more likely to happen (from US experience anyway) on the smaller levels than the larger levels.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #1053
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No matter what kind of government you have, this will be true. I'd rather have citizens' rights protected by all of them though, especially when there are lots of people out there more than willing to use majority opinion to oppress others, which is much more likely to happen (from US experience anyway) on the smaller levels than the larger levels.
    Me too. Question is how in the heck do we do that in the current environment?
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  4. #1054
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Me too. Question is how in the heck do we do that in the current environment?
    Letting the SCOTUS do their job, and holding all levels of government accountable for their actions. Actually getting your voice heard, encouraging voting and actually giving your opinion to your representatives. Don't allow the fricking loud-mouthed jerks and fringe members of any party to be the ones that talk the loudest because then you end up with vast divides.

    We are never going to get a consensus when it comes to what people consider right. Most of the states' rights people I know are all about discarding the protections guaranteed by the 14th in favor of letting the states have their way, even if that means people in those states are oppressed by the will of the majority, despite the US Constitution. The best we can do is to simply be involved and teach our children to do so. If something really becomes an issue, stand up for yourself and your views, but be willing to take the consequences, and you should make damn well sure you're fighting for what you truly believe is right, not simply following the crowd or getting caught up in some hype.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1055
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

    I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.
    The Confederacy was founded to protect slavery from big bad Abraham Lincoln. The US was founded on the general principal of equality that has grown since our founding. The Confederacy tried to divide our country and take us back in the wrong direction.

  6. #1056
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Letting the SCOTUS do their job, and holding all levels of government accountable for their actions. Actually getting your voice heard, encouraging voting and actually giving your opinion to your representatives. Don't allow the fricking loud-mouthed jerks and fringe members of any party to be the ones that talk the loudest because then you end up with vast divides.

    We are never going to get a consensus when it comes to what people consider right. Most of the states' rights people I know are all about discarding the protections guaranteed by the 14th in favor of letting the states have their way, even if that means people in those states are oppressed by the will of the majority, despite the US Constitution. The best we can do is to simply be involved and teach our children to do so. If something really becomes an issue, stand up for yourself and your views, but be willing to take the consequences, and you should make damn well sure you're fighting for what you truly believe is right, not simply following the crowd or getting caught up in some hype.
    Well fellow Tarheel (or are you a Wolf?) You're right. Unfortunately the fringes on both sides yell the loudest, and the mainstream is having a hard time getting their voices heard because people listen to the fringe on both sides. We can teach kids how the government works when they are in school, but the GOOD teachers (I had a terrific government teacher in high school) are gonna be the ones to get the kids excited about being able to make their voices heard. With any luck the young people will get involved and maybe turn things around.
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  7. #1057
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    The Confederacy was founded to protect slavery from big bad Abraham Lincoln. The US was founded on the general principal of equality that has grown since our founding. The Confederacy tried to divide our country and take us back in the wrong direction.
    Nope. The South wanted things to be more as the nation was originally founded, where the states had more say. The yanks on the other hand wanted a stronger central government, so the South exercised their right to leave, and when the north realized the economic consequences of that move, it was all she wrote.
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  8. #1058
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Well fellow Tarheel (or are you a Wolf?) You're right. Unfortunately the fringes on both sides yell the loudest, and the mainstream is having a hard time getting their voices heard because people listen to the fringe on both sides. We can teach kids how the government works when they are in school, but the GOOD teachers (I had a terrific government teacher in high school) are gonna be the ones to get the kids excited about being able to make their voices heard. With any luck the young people will get involved and maybe turn things around.
    They do yell loud on both sides, over a wide range of issues. I still believe the majority are actually in the middle though, either in that they easily see both sides and look for a compromise or believe in something somewhere in between anyway, and/or they take an extreme view on a very few amount of issues, not based on partisanship, but rather based on their own personal views or feelings, and are pretty balanced out otherwise.

    As for the Tarheel/Wolf thing, I don't do sports nor care about either college besting the other or anyone else. I also wasn't raised here in Raleigh, but rather in Kings Mountain and small towns in that area.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #1059
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Maybe you should come down to Atlanta, and you'll see what I mean. That beautiful Downtown/Midtown skyline--and that one I will give you--belies the fact that, as I tried to gently point out in my previous post, wealth inequality is a serious problem there, just as it is across most if not all of America. Atlanta has incredible mansions, for example, in the Buckhead region, which exist only a few miles from the west side of town, where you can find a lot of poverty. You want wealth, you want poverty, we've got both. Furthermore, the recent "vibrancy" of Atlanta, as you call it, is a two-headed coin: Yes they have a lot of building projects, the Beltline, gentrification, etc., but that gentrification is coming at the expense of displacing those who cannot afford basic housing. So what happens? Some of that poverty gets pushed into the suburbs. South Cobb, southwest Gwinnett, etc. are seeing large swaths of poverty, where even 30 years ago there was not nearly as much. Simply put, playing whack-a-mole with poverty does not solve it. Nor does cutting taxes on the rich, otherwise states such as Louisiana and Mississippi would be prosperous.

    P.S. Georgia has the second-worst unemployment rate in the nation, only ahead of, surprise surprise, Mississippi. These have been Republican-controlled states ever since the mass exodus of the Dixiecrats to the Democratic party. And oh, yeah, Michigan is Republican-controlled, too, yet it also has bad unemployment. Could it be that cutting taxes on the richest people is not the silver bullet that we have been told for decades?
    My wife and I spent a couple of anniversaries in Atlanta in recent years, mainly to attend operas at the Cobb Energy Center. We both enjoyed our time there. We rode public transportation, including buses and the subway, and spent time downtown in Centennial Park, CNN Center, the aquarium, etc. Frankly, we were impressed by how clean it was, with a significant amount of mixed-use development. On the other hand, I'll never forget the moonscape we witnessed as we flew into Detroit's airport a few years ago. I mean, yeah, there were skyscrapers, but there were also many empty fields and dilapidated buildings. The place just looked depressing, like something from a dystopian novel.

    Anyway, my point isn't that Atlanta is some sort of Shrangri La or Oz, but I stand by the juxtaposed photo of the city as a metaphor for an ascendant South. I could just as easily have substituted Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Huntsville, Chattanooga, Nashville, or Raleigh-Durham.
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  10. #1060
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They do yell loud on both sides, over a wide range of issues. I still believe the majority are actually in the middle though, either in that they easily see both sides and look for a compromise or believe in something somewhere in between anyway, and/or they take an extreme view on a very few amount of issues, not based on partisanship, but rather based on their own personal views or feelings, and are pretty balanced out otherwise.

    As for the Tarheel/Wolf thing, I don't do sports nor care about either college besting the other or anyone else. I also wasn't raised here in Raleigh, but rather in Kings Mountain and small towns in that area.
    Been to Kings Mountain, nice little town. Visited the battlefield several times. I actually grew up in Charlotte, but now live closer to Winston Salem. But we're both Tarheels being in the Tarheel state!
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