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Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgeries

  • Yeah

    Votes: 11 20.0%

  • No

    Votes: 44 80.0%
  • Total voters
    55
Paschendale said:
Of course. Why wouldn't it be?
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In what respect is the operation a public good? Why would anyone want governments involved in the production of anything not a public good? That could be motivated only by selfishness or stupidity.
 
soot said:
Gender dysphoria.

I voted yes.

Where there is a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and gender reassignment surgery is indicated as necessary treatment then the surgery should be covered by insurance or subsidized by the government in the same way that any other medically necessary treatment would be covered.
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There is a name for everything. That does not mean that it justifies an operation being paid for by third parties.if someone is discontented they should work it out themselves.
But you can make a donation yourself, if you like.
 
Of course. To vote no would be utterly unsympathetic and non-humane, and non-conducive to a species which survives off of empathy-driven group dynamics.

Anyone who votes no with the justification of "Don't treat a mental condition with physical alteration..." is quite frankly being disingenuous, and quite bluntly are flat out liars. They are well aware of the fact that there is no known treatment for the mind in this regard, and they also likely know that the evidence points toward the fact that it never will be because the condition likely hormonally develops in the womb.

We have tried treating this mentally for years; there's a reason it's now considered unethical to attempt. You're asserting that these people should not be happy because we don't have the exact solution (and likely never will) that your non-affected being doesn't even have to deal with. The only logical conclusion about people who hold this stance is that they have an unreasonably dogmatic line of reasoning - likely an attempt to preserve fragile notions of their religiosity, masculinity, and/or sexuality.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Self explanatory. Do you think the government should pay, or help pay, or subsidize insurance companies, or in any other way funnel money toward assisting people to undergo gender reassignment surgeries?

If so, to what extent?
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Not only "NO!" but "Hell no!"
 
zom said:
Of course. To vote no would be utterly unsympathetic and non-humane, and non-conducive to a species which survives off of empathy-driven group dynamics.
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I feel for you.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Self explanatory. Do you think the government should pay, or help pay, or subsidize insurance companies, or in any other way funnel money toward assisting people to undergo gender reassignment surgeries?

If so, to what extent?
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Elective surgery. Should the government pay for boob jobs?
 
Paschendale said:
No facial reconstruction surgery for car crash victims, either? That's elective cosmetic surgery.
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I didn't say no one should have cosmetic surgery - I said taxpayers should never be compelled to pay for it.

But of course, I wouldn't really care if we were talking about an emergency appendectomy, I would still say the taxpayer shouldn't be on the hook for that bill.

Taxpayers should not pay for any healthcare services for the public at large (though obviously taxes pay for the wages and benefits of government employees).

But let us not pretend that cosmetic surgery is not in a whole other ballpark; it's frivolous.
 
For any of you who think this a grand idea - where in the Constitution is the government authorized to do such a thing??
 
sawdust said:
Elective surgery. Should the government pay for boob jobs?
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I've noticed a continuing trend of staunch disingenuity from the opposing side, and it's really quite telling for anyone on the sidelines and the opposing side. To be frank I'm getting a strong dose of secondhand embarrassment from it.

Comparing a surgery which addresses a long term, widespread, largely studied form of intense, life-threatening distress that is only alleviated via these procedures with a god damn boob job. How plainly embarrassing, honestly. I'd hate to feel obligated to conjure up "arguments" to adhere to a political ideology which favors such insanity.
 
wist43 said:
For any of you who think this a grand idea - where in the Constitution is the government authorized to do such a thing??
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Is the Constitution more of a source of objective morality or is it more of a set of general guidelines for which to follow and importantly amend as society progresses?
 
zom said:
I've noticed a continuing trend of staunch disingenuity from the opposing side, and it's really quite telling for anyone on the sidelines and the opposing side. To be frank I'm getting a strong dose of secondhand embarrassment from it.

Comparing a surgery which addresses a long term, widespread, largely studied form of intense, life-threatening distress that is only alleviated via these procedures with a god damn boob job. How plainly embarrassing, honestly. I'd hate to feel obligated to conjure up "arguments" to adhere to a political ideology which favors such insanity.
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Nonsense. Bruce Jenner made the transformation because he's hanging out with the Kardashians who happen to be masters of self promotion. It's his body and I don't care what he does with it but his gender confusion is far from an intense life threatening ailment. I don't care if anyone wants to cross dress or get plastic surgery. The public shouldn't pay for it and that was the original question.
 
sawdust said:
Nonsense. Bruce Jenner made the transformation because he's hanging out with the Kardashians who happen to be masters of self promotion. It's his body and I don't care what he does with it but his gender confusion is far from an intense life threatening ailment. I don't care if anyone wants to cross dress or get plastic surgery. The public shouldn't pay for it and that was the original question.
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"Nonsense" isn't an argument, and neither is poorly executed, and very likely uninformed, speculation. I guess it's easier to shrug this off and disingenuously speculate, effectively playing with other peoples' livelihoods when they don't have an emotional tie to you.

Yes, the Kardashians are ridiculous. Yes, Jenner is likely a narcissistic attention whore. These have nothing to do with GDD. No one would do this sort of drastic thing out of the need for attention and validation - have you met a trans person before, specifically one who is pre-everything, not out and such?

What you're suggesting reeks of ignorance, prejudice, and dogma, and again is embarrassing. These people go through hell, and their suicide rates are through the roof. Spin it however you want, a large portion of trans people are dying because of their dysphoria and you people are likening the alleviation to cosmetics and saying it's not life threatening while so many of their lives are ending prematurely due in part to those same people.
 
zom said:
"Nonsense" isn't an argument, and neither is poorly executed, and very likely uninformed, speculation. I guess it's easier to shrug this off and disingenuously speculate, effectively playing with other peoples' livelihoods when they don't have an emotional tie to you.

Yes, the Kardashians are ridiculous. Yes, Jenner is likely a narcissistic attention whore. These have nothing to do with GDD. No one would do this sort of drastic thing out of the need for attention and validation - have you met a trans person before, specifically one who is pre-everything, not out and such?

What you're suggesting reeks of ignorance, prejudice, and dogma, and again is embarrassing. These people go through hell, and their suicide rates are through the roof. Spin it however you want, a large portion of trans people are dying because of their dysphoria and you people are likening the alleviation to cosmetics and saying it's not life threatening while so many of their lives are ending prematurely due in part to those same people.
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Nonsense is a precise term which describes my opinion of your feelings.
 
sawdust said:
Nonsense is a precise term which describes my opinion of your feelings.
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My feelings? The ones on the facts which you either don't have a grasp on, or (my guess) are being voluntarily ignorant and disingenuously making clearly ridiculous claims about? Those ones or the other ones?
 
No, an extremely expensive elective procedure that is not necessary shouldn't receive government funding. Why should someone get that to alter how their body looks which in no way contributes positively to society. It shouldn't be up to taxpayers to fund designer 'gina's or designer dicks and titts.
 
sawdust said:
Elective surgery. Should the government pay for boob jobs?
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How about this guy? Should tax dollars have been used to help pay for him becoming this?

4_LizzardBro.jpg
 
I am very empathetic and sympathetic to gender identity issues, but I have to draw the line here. I say 'no' to government money being used for reassignment surgery, though I would be fine with helping with therapy, etc.
 
molten_dragon said:
No. I'm a proponent of single-payer healthcare for the most part, but I don't think that the public should have to pay for voluntary cosmetic surgery, which is what gender reassignment is.

As far as it being a treatment for gender dysphoria, the available evidence points to people who have the surgery being just as unhappy as those who don't, so it doesn't seem to be much of a cure. If it actually worked, I might feel differently about the public paying for it.
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See, and that's the biggest reason why I don't support paying for the surgery, but paying for therapy. The issues go far deeper than physical anatomy, and like you say, the evidence that it doesn't actually solve anything is solid.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Self explanatory. Do you think the government should pay, or help pay, or subsidize insurance companies, or in any other way funnel money toward assisting people to undergo gender reassignment surgeries?

If so, to what extent?
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If I may ask, what prompted this question?
 
zom said:
Is the Constitution more of a source of objective morality or is it more of a set of general guidelines for which to follow and importantly amend as society progresses?
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Wow...

It is neither - it was intended to be an unambiguous document that established the FedGov and empowered it to certain enumerated powers. If any power is not specifically granted to the FedGov in the Constitution, the FedGov does not possess that power.

It is the rule of law which governs the government. It does not restrict you and I as citizens, it restricts the government.

It is not a "democratic" document, it is a republican document. It is a republican document that affords for change by way of an amendment process - but our Founding Fathers wisely made that process a difficult one with deliberately high hurdles - so as to prevent any frivolous law, or emotional reactions to something by the masses from being able to simply change the Constitution on a whim.

Anyone who thinks they are sooooo right that the government should implement their will with the force of law, outside of the Constitutions bounds, is someone who cares nothing about the rights of any citizen; of course all the while proclaiming that they are acting and petitioning in the name of someones rights.

The bottom line for the Constitution?? If something isn't specifically granted in the Constitution, the FedGov doesn't have the power to engage in it. It certainly doesn't have the power to engage in medical care, education, policing, or sex change... wow, just wow!!
 
zom said:
My feelings? The ones on the facts which you either don't have a grasp on, or (my guess) are being voluntarily ignorant and disingenuously making clearly ridiculous claims about? Those ones or the other ones?
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You have expressed your feelings as if they were fact. What's the difference between augmentation mammoplasty in a man or a woman if the woman just wants bigger ones and a man wants totally fake ones? They are both elective surgeries and should be paid for by the individual, not the public.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
View attachment 67185331
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Says the guy equating a man emulating a lizard's appearance, likely for fun, to a large group of severely distressed individuals who have a common condition that has been studied and is widely understood to be a common cause of a certain set of physical conditions in the brain, and feel immense, incurable mental unrest all in a similar way.

From what I've seen in your posts, your entire worldview hinges on disingenuity as a basis, and this instance surely doesn't deviate far. Your reasoning doesn't ever stray from "Hurr god" or "This is just PC" (which doesn't really exist but okay) or some unsuited metaphor.

Here's a suggestion: try arguing without the use of buzzwords, an appeal to authority, or the injection of your unfounded, and plainly mean, opinions. Then maybe your "arguments" will elevate themselves to a new level of clarity so that even you can see that your reasoning is nonsensical.

I expect a deflection post with a hint of disingenuous jabbing and false equivalents as a reply. Or maybe a logical sequence of reason stripped of logical fallacies, deflections, and disingenuity? (UNLIKELY)
 
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