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Was I wrong?

Was I wrong to ask her to stop?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 4.4%

  • No

    Votes: 43 95.6%
  • Total voters
    45
Kreton said:
Great post.
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I agree. A couple of more points of free advice FWIW

1) Do document and stick to the facts, as it's been suggested.

2) Ignore stonewall's advice. If you assume an adverserial relationship, that's what you're going to get and as you said earlier, having a problem with a same sex couple is not going to help you with your potential coaching career. Turning a potential problem into a supporter will.

If she's determined to be adversarial, let her hang herself. Just document what goes on for future reference.

3) You should do everything possible to get along with her. Along these lines

a) When you next see her, tell her your apology was sincere and that you're thrilled that you two will be "working together". Use that phrase. Do not say she will be "helping" you and do not call her an "Assistant Coach" You do not want to say anything that could be perceived as diminishing her. Instead, you want to raise her status (and document that fact) in relation to you. You may even want to write something in advance and memorize it (and document it) beforehand.

b) If she has suggestions, let your 2nd Asst Coach respond to them before you do. If the 2nd Asst doesn't respond, prompt them by asking "What do you think?". If the 2nd isn't there, say "Sounds great. Why don't you see what xxxxx thinks"

Let the other Asst Coach be the one who complains about this woman. And if she complains about you, her complaint will be that you're cooperating with the lesbian mother. Her complaints will be a twofer for you (ie the lesbian mother will get complaints, and you will be portrayed as being cooperating with the lesbian mother which will inoculate you against potential future complaints that you're hostile to homosexuals)
 
sangha said:
I agree. A couple of more points of free advice FWIW

1) Do document and stick to the facts, as it's been suggested.

2) Ignore stonewall's advice. If you assume an adverserial relationship, that's what you're going to get and as you said earlier, having a problem with a same sex couple is not going to help you with your potential coaching career. Turning a potential problem into a supporter will.

If she's determined to be adversarial, let her hang herself. Just document what goes on for future reference.

3) You should do everything possible to get along with her. Along these lines

a) When you next see her, tell her your apology was sincere and that you're thrilled that you two will be "working together". Use that phrase. Do not say she will be "helping" you and do not call her an "Assistant Coach" You do not want to say anything that could be perceived as diminishing her. Instead, you want to raise her status (and document that fact) in relation to you. You may even want to write something in advance and memorize it (and document it) beforehand.

b) If she has suggestions, let your 2nd Asst Coach respond to them before you do. If the 2nd Asst doesn't respond, prompt them by asking "What do you think?". If the 2nd isn't there, say "Sounds great. Why don't you see what xxxxx thinks"

Let the other Asst Coach be the one who complains about this woman. And if she complains about you, her complaint will be that you're cooperating with the lesbian mother. Her complaints will be a twofer for you (ie the lesbian mother will get complaints, and you will be portrayed as being cooperating with the lesbian mother which will inoculate you against potential future complaints that you're hostile to homosexuals)
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great suggestions top to bottom.
 
sangha said:
I agree. A couple of more points of free advice FWIW

1) Do document and stick to the facts, as it's been suggested.

2) Ignore stonewall's advice. If you assume an adverserial relationship, that's what you're going to get and as you said earlier, having a problem with a same sex couple is not going to help you with your potential coaching career. Turning a potential problem into a supporter will.

If she's determined to be adversarial, let her hang herself. Just document what goes on for future reference.

3) You should do everything possible to get along with her. Along these lines

a) When you next see her, tell her your apology was sincere and that you're thrilled that you two will be "working together". Use that phrase. Do not say she will be "helping" you and do not call her an "Assistant Coach" You do not want to say anything that could be perceived as diminishing her. Instead, you want to raise her status (and document that fact) in relation to you. You may even want to write something in advance and memorize it (and document it) beforehand.

b) If she has suggestions, let your 2nd Asst Coach respond to them before you do. If the 2nd Asst doesn't respond, prompt them by asking "What do you think?". If the 2nd isn't there, say "Sounds great. Why don't you see what xxxxx thinks"

Let the other Asst Coach be the one who complains about this woman. And if she complains about you, her complaint will be that you're cooperating with the lesbian mother. Her complaints will be a twofer for you (ie the lesbian mother will get complaints, and you will be portrayed as being cooperating with the lesbian mother which will inoculate you against potential future complaints that you're hostile to homosexuals)
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You've eliminated most of what I would consider acceptable language. What would you suggest to "raise her status" without offending at the same time?
 
Sounds like she was fishing for a lawsuit. Suing people is good business in America

Kreton said:
I coach for the city here where i live. Varying sports for ages 4-13 depending on where they need help coaching. For baseball this year one of my teams is a 4-5 year old t ball team. We had our first practice last night and two women came with a little girl. I introduced myself and said hi and they immediately went on a little speech about how they are together, they are lesbians, they are raising this girl together, nothing wrong with that. Then go into whats going to happen if I discriminate against their daughter because of their sexuality, threatening lawsuits and explaining that there are laws ect. I told them I was there to teach their daughter softball, and their sexual orientation was not a factor at all and moved along. As I am meeting other parents a few of them commented that this lady had approached them and gave them a similar speech out of nowhere. After all the kids were there I gathered the kids together and started off having the kids introduce themselves to their teammates. No additional information really, just kid would say my name is Earl. And everyone would say Hi Earl to start to learn teammates names. When the little girl told everyone her name, again the lady popped into action giving her speech to everyone out there. I stopped her after about a minute and spoke to her privately, or as privately as I could on a baseball field, and let her know that it is not appropriate to interrupt a team activity like that, and again told her noone is going to be discriminating against her daughter. So today I get a call from the city letting me know she filed a complaint and is taking her child off of my team because I told her she had to hide her sexuality at our practices so it wouldn't bother other parents. I dont recall my exact wording but it was not mean, the word hiding or even sexuality didnt come out of my mouth. I only asked her not to interrupt our practices and tried to assure he that I don't care what her sexual preference is, I am there to teach baseball and the other parents are only there to watch.

Was I wrong to ask her to stop what she was doing?
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radcen said:
You've eliminated most of what I would consider acceptable language. What would you suggest to "raise her status" without offending at the same time?
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Basically, language that portrays Kreton and his new Asst Coach as equals.
 
Kreton said:
I coach for the city here where i live. Varying sports for ages 4-13 depending on where they need help coaching. For baseball this year one of my teams is a 4-5 year old t ball team. We had our first practice last night and two women came with a little girl. I introduced myself and said hi and they immediately went on a little speech about how they are together, they are lesbians, they are raising this girl together, nothing wrong with that. Then go into whats going to happen if I discriminate against their daughter because of their sexuality, threatening lawsuits and explaining that there are laws ect. I told them I was there to teach their daughter softball, and their sexual orientation was not a factor at all and moved along. As I am meeting other parents a few of them commented that this lady had approached them and gave them a similar speech out of nowhere. After all the kids were there I gathered the kids together and started off having the kids introduce themselves to their teammates. No additional information really, just kid would say my name is Earl. And everyone would say Hi Earl to start to learn teammates names. When the little girl told everyone her name, again the lady popped into action giving her speech to everyone out there. I stopped her after about a minute and spoke to her privately, or as privately as I could on a baseball field, and let her know that it is not appropriate to interrupt a team activity like that, and again told her noone is going to be discriminating against her daughter. So today I get a call from the city letting me know she filed a complaint and is taking her child off of my team because I told her she had to hide her sexuality at our practices so it wouldn't bother other parents. I dont recall my exact wording but it was not mean, the word hiding or even sexuality didnt come out of my mouth. I only asked her not to interrupt our practices and tried to assure he that I don't care what her sexual preference is, I am there to teach baseball and the other parents are only there to watch.

Was I wrong to ask her to stop what she was doing?
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I think this incident helped enormously to reinforce equal treatment ... LGBT people can be as big arseholes as anyone else.

If this scenario played out as you described, and I'm not questioning your account for a second, then you behaved appropriately, which I'm sure others present would back you up on. I don't think you've anything to worry about.
 
Kreton said:
So had the meeting. Started off really poorly because she and her wife were there and No-one told me that. I thought it was me and the city reps. That really irritated me.

Anyhow, I explained why I asked her to knock it off. She had a list of problems with me it seemed like. First when I greeted her I asked the child's name and then asked who her mother was, which is offensive since she had two mothers and I shouldn't have assumed they weren't together. Then she claims I refused to acknowledge her spouse. Which through all of this the spouse never really said or did anything so I was pretty much just talking to the parent who was talking. Which not addressing her spouse means I refused to acknowledge them as a couple somehow.

Then she claims that after she told me they were together I looked like I wanted to get away. Which this is somewhat true, largely because I didn't want to hear it, but also because other kids were arriving and I wanted to greet them more than listen to her.

Then she said other parents were staring and giving her looks and I allowed it and she felt like parents were going to tell thier kids to not involve hers. Which as a coach I would never allow.

Then of course I singled her out to set an example to everyone that I was in charge. Which is not why I pulled her aside.

Then I made the apparently horrible mistake in the meeting of saying that I don't care if she is gay or not. And holy **** did that set her off. I was not supposed to call her gay, which may have some merit, I am not overly pc so maybe. And saying I didn't care about her sexualitat turned into I don't believe in civil rights or equality since I don't care about homosexual equality. Really wasn't sure how it got there.

Though all of this I was explaining that she is taking everything way out off context and reading into things that aren't there.

In the end, I was asked to apologize and promise to be more attentive of the sensitive issue. Which it took everything in me to do. It really did. She also got a refund and her child will be playing for free, and also will be allowed to play basketball for free when that starts. Her child is back on my team, and she is going to be my assistant coach to ensure he child gets fair playing time. Which I don't get since all children play the field, there are no reserves.

But whatever I guess. Not too happy at them moment
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I'm sorry but I actually lol'd a bit at that last bit. she's going to be your freaking ASSISTANT COACH??? that's a situation that has "sitcom" written all over it.
 
nota bene said:
Yup. She's just an asshole. And I feel sorry for her kid--really, can you imagine the embarrassing incidents of the future?
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I feel sorry for the kid too. My 6 year old practically faints from embarrassment if I so much as hug her or even try to hold her hand. Not that it stops me from doing it but I would never in a million years go so far as to stand up in front of her friends or teammates and make a public spectacle of my sexuality.
 
sangha said:
The important thing to remember is that you objected to the parents interrupting the children while they were introducing themselves to each other. Your objection had nothing to do with the content of what they were saying - only the timing.
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Not how it will be presented. And you know it.
 
radcen said:
Maybe it's just my way of thinking, but somebody needs to be in charge. They're not equals, in the coaching of the team.
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From Kreton's POV, the "need" is for him to retain his position so he can get a good recommendation from the city when he applies for a paid coaching position.
 
radcen said:
Maybe it's just my way of thinking, but somebody needs to be in charge. They're not equals, in the coaching of the team.
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I think what Sangha is saying is that if his goal is to succeed in coaching then whether this woman is right or wrong is immaterial. He just needs to deal with her in a way that protects himself from any further damage and, possibly, changes her mind about him. If I've got that more or less correct then Sangha is 100% correct in his recommendation. Kreton is in a situation he can't win so his best option is to simply survive long enough that the bitch gets bored and goes on to find another fight.
 
The poor kid. She'll never be able to have a fun stress free activity if this is how her parents approach everything she does. What a selfish bitch to make this event about her instead of her daughter. You did nothing wrong dude. Don't sweat it.
 
sangha said:
From Kreton's POV, the "need" is for him to retain his position so he can get a good recommendation from the city when he applies for a paid coaching position.
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Lutherf said:
I think what Sangha is saying is that if his goal is to succeed in coaching then whether this woman is right or wrong is immaterial. He just needs to deal with her in a way that protects himself from any further damage and, possibly, changes her mind about him. If I've got that more or less correct then Sangha is 100% correct in his recommendation. Kreton is in a situation he can't win so his best option is to simply survive long enough that the bitch gets bored and goes on to find another fight.
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Fair enough. It has the potential to be a no-win situation then.
 
radcen said:
Fair enough. It has the potential to be a no-win situation then.
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Aside from the notion that this is a no-win situation, Luther was correct

Kreton now has the opportunity, thanks to this woman, to demonstrate to the city that he's the kind of person who can deal with a difficult parent.
 
Phoenix said:
The poor kid. She'll never be able to have a fun stress free activity if this is how her parents approach everything she does. What a selfish bitch to make this event about her instead of her daughter. You did nothing wrong dude. Don't sweat it.
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And that is what is so galling about these situations. Obviously the lesbian couple came into the activity with the intention of making a political statement and looking for a fight. To use their 'daughter' in this manner is hateful, repugnant, cruel, and should be acceptable to nobody, most especially the gay and lesbian community. But is it a lose lose situation for the targeted person who just wants everybody to have a good time and who wants politics to be left out of it? The way the courts have been ruling lately, probably. And that is a damn shame for everybody concerned.
 
sangha said:
Aside from the notion that this is a no-win situation, Luther was correct

Kreton now has the opportunity, thanks to this woman, to demonstrate to the city that he's the kind of person who can deal with a difficult parent.
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my regard for the city/park & rec staff is almost as low as that held for the lesbian couple, based on the account provided
he was sandbagged
the city scheduled a meeting with him without advising that the lesbian couple would be there to confront him
they made him apologize. for what remains unclear
they rewarded the couple with free participation fees for multiple sports, giving the distinct appearance that something was owed to the couple
and then, when the woman wanted to become the coach of the team, they made her the assistant to the fellow she reported for wrongdoing when there was no wrongdoing

after three years, the coach has earned his letter of good standing. he should stand there while they wrote and signed it and not let the door hit his ass on the way out

fortunately, for his daughter, and the other kids he coaches, he is more level than i and will continue to put up with such bull****
 
justabubba said:
my regard for the city/park & rec staff is almost as low as that held for the lesbian couple, based on the account provided
he was sandbagged
the city scheduled a meeting with him without advising that the lesbian couple would be there to confront him
they made him apologize. for what remains unclear
they rewarded the couple with free participation fees for multiple sports, giving the distinct appearance that something was owed to the couple
and then, when the woman wanted to become the coach of the team, they made her the assistant to the fellow she reported for wrongdoing when there was no wrongdoing

after three years, the coach has earned his letter of good standing. he should stand there while they wrote and signed it and not let the door hit his ass on the way out

fortunately, for his daughter, and the other kids he coaches, he is more level than i and will continue to put up with such bull****
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To (hopefully) avoid a lawsuit, I'm sure.
 
Kreton said:
Obviously I don't think I was wrong, but I have to go meet with the sports director and someone from their HR to discuss how to handle it in the future. I haven't really spoken to them much about it but, who knows how they may interpret it when we meet.
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You did the right thing and try to bring as many of the other parents with you as possible to back up your story of the woman being way out of line.

Sound like she is looking for a payday using her daughter. That is a scumbag move for sure.
 
iliveonramen said:
You don't have to ask them to come to the meeting...ask a couple if the people your meeting with can call them if they would like. Just so you have that in your back pocket.

I really don't see much of an issue man....they will investigate and there's nothing there. I'm sure they are use to stuff like this and have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.
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You are assuming city workers are rational.
 
radcen said:
To (hopefully) avoid a lawsuit, I'm sure.
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without question. the park & rec staff was covering its ass. at the coach's expense
but what was the actual wrongdoing which required an apology. based on the coach's posts he still doesn't know what it was he had done for which he was required to apologize
 
justabubba said:
without question. the park & rec staff was covering its ass. at the coach's expense
but what was the actual wrongdoing which required an apology. based on the coach's posts he still doesn't know what it was he had done for which he was required to apologize
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Completely agree. There was nothing done that necessitated an apology.
 
Kreton said:
its not going to go that far. at least not at this point. she seems happy that i apologized and her child back on the team, and being an assistant coach to help control that. She is convincing. I want to believe she was trying to play an agenda to get some free sports, but she honestly seemed offended when we were all meeting. I dont know what to think. I probalby could have handled it better, certainly could have been better in the meeting, but i am hoping we can all focus on t ball. Sorrys have been said.
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Meh, just let bygones be bygones. Chalk it up to a misunderstanding on both of your parts. Go out of your way to be friendly to her and her partner.
 
Kreton said:
I have no reason to make anything up, i dont watch fox news and am not really partisan and certainly don't have any anti homosexual agenda. Believe what you'd like though. I started this because i was curious if people thought i was out of line, since i am at times oblivious to some things and have been inadvertantly un pc in the past.

And the only thing I said that may have been inappropriate, emphasis on may have been, was saying "gay". But I didnt say or mean it as derogatory, but that part I can somewhat understand her misinterpreting. That I could have worded better and knew it right after it was said. Nothing else I know of I said was I grossly unaware. I am presenting on here my side of what happened, probably not going to invite her in, but i listed what she said were how I made her react.
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We can't say gay now?

What are we supposed to say in its place?
 
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