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Black Lives, Blue Lives or Something Else. Which lives matter?

Which lives matter?

  • Total voters
    55
SmokeAndMirrors said:
All of them. It just seems that some people think some matter more than others. The black lives campaign is merely pointing out that discrepancy.
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It's pretty much one group of people saying, "hey, we still racism exists and is relevant today," and another group saying, "hey, stfu about that. You're offending us."
 
Color blinders on. Color blinders off.

TurtleDude said:
what would really be great is if blacks actually thought black lives mattered

blacks can whine about police killings-some of which appear to have dubious reasons (such as the cops in a car shooting that boy in cleveland who had an air soft pistol or the cops shooting that man carrying an air gun in the Dayton area)-but until blacks stop killing other blacks at rates far higher than white on white killings and many times higher than white on black killings, nothing is really going to get better. and like it or not, the high rate of murder perpetrated by young black men isn't going to help their relationship with cops
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TurtleDude said:
what would really be great is if blacks actually thought black lives mattered

blacks can whine about police killings-some of which appear to have dubious reasons (such as the cops in a car shooting that boy in cleveland who had an air soft pistol or the cops shooting that man carrying an air gun in the Dayton area)-but until blacks stop killing other blacks at rates far higher than white on white killings and many times higher than white on black killings, nothing is really going to get better. and like it or not, the high rate of murder perpetrated by young black men isn't going to help their relationship with cops
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Yeah I kind of said something similar, but was told I didn't understand history or reality. :roll:

According to FBI.gov statistics, in 2013, 2,500 white boys killed other white boys. 2,245 black boys killed other black boys.

So how about we go back to the way it should be - all lives matter. Those white boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there. The black boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there, either.

According to the same statistics chart, 409 black boys killed white boys, while 189 white boys killed black boys.

An awful lot of killing going on here, but where's the march for them? Where's the cutesy, trendy little hash tag for them? This is all just for attention. A cop shoots a thug coming after him and all of a sudden, race baiter Jesse Jackson and others have to get involved. Doesn't matter that the kid strong-armed a store owner and robbed him. Doesn't matter that the kid was twice the size of the cop and was coming after him.

Why didn't Jesse Jackson organize marches for the 2,245 black boys that were killed by other black boys? I'll tell you why. Because he is a pot stirrer of the worst kind, and if he can find a pot to stir, he's gonna do it. But he won't say "black lives matter" if blacks are killing other blacks. I hate that he puts himself on the same level as Martin Luther King, Jr. He is NOTHING like MLKJR. NOTHING. Martin Luther King, Jr wanted equal rights for all. All Jesse Jackson says is "black lives matter." I wonder what MLKJR would say about that. He would probably say, "Yes, they do, but so do white lives, and red lives, and yellow lives, because all lives are the same in the sight of God. A soul has no color."
 
Superfly said:
Yeah I kind of said something similar, but was told I didn't understand history or reality. :roll:

According to FBI.gov statistics, in 2013, 2,500 white boys killed other white boys. 2,245 black boys killed other black boys.

So how about we go back to the way it should be - all lives matter. Those white boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there. The black boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there, either.

According to the same statistics chart, 409 black boys killed white boys, while 189 white boys killed black boys.

An awful lot of killing going on here, but where's the march for them? Where's the cutesy, trendy little hash tag for them? This is all just for attention. A cop shoots a thug coming after him and all of a sudden, race baiter Jesse Jackson and others have to get involved. Doesn't matter that the kid strong-armed a store owner and robbed him. Doesn't matter that the kid was twice the size of the cop and was coming after him.

Why didn't Jesse Jackson organize marches for the 2,245 black boys that were killed by other black boys? I'll tell you why. Because he is a pot stirrer of the worst kind, and if he can find a pot to stir, he's gonna do it. But he won't say "black lives matter" if blacks are killing other blacks. I hate that he puts himself on the same level as Martin Luther King, Jr. He is NOTHING like MLKJR. NOTHING. Martin Luther King, Jr wanted equal rights for all. All Jesse Jackson says is "black lives matter." I wonder what MLKJR would say about that. He would probably say, "Yes, they do, but so do white lives, and red lives, and yellow lives, because all lives are the same in the sight of God. A soul has no color."
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Great post.
 
Superfly said:
I've said "all lives matter" since all this started. In my opinion, this is just another way to separate by color. I thought we'd gotten past that, but I guess we haven't.
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Not only are we not past that, we're wrong if that's the way we think it should be.
 
Given all the posts in this thread, why are only 3 brave souls willing to take the "black lives matter" option?
 
Superfly said:
Yeah I kind of said something similar, but was told I didn't understand history or reality. :roll:

According to FBI.gov statistics, in 2013, 2,500 white boys killed other white boys. 2,245 black boys killed other black boys.

So how about we go back to the way it should be - all lives matter. Those white boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there. The black boys didn't deserve to die, but they did. No marches there, either.

According to the same statistics chart, 409 black boys killed white boys, while 189 white boys killed black boys.

An awful lot of killing going on here, but where's the march for them? Where's the cutesy, trendy little hash tag for them? This is all just for attention. A cop shoots a thug coming after him and all of a sudden, race baiter Jesse Jackson and others have to get involved. Doesn't matter that the kid strong-armed a store owner and robbed him. Doesn't matter that the kid was twice the size of the cop and was coming after him.

Why didn't Jesse Jackson organize marches for the 2,245 black boys that were killed by other black boys? I'll tell you why. Because he is a pot stirrer of the worst kind, and if he can find a pot to stir, he's gonna do it. But he won't say "black lives matter" if blacks are killing other blacks. I hate that he puts himself on the same level as Martin Luther King, Jr. He is NOTHING like MLKJR. NOTHING. Martin Luther King, Jr wanted equal rights for all. All Jesse Jackson says is "black lives matter." I wonder what MLKJR would say about that. He would probably say, "Yes, they do, but so do white lives, and red lives, and yellow lives, because all lives are the same in the sight of God. A soul has no color."
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Interesting stats

White Americans are the racial majority, with a 77.7% share of the U.S. population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.1% of the population, making up the largest minority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 62.6% of the nation's total.[6]

Race and ethnicity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In bold according to your stats posted above, I posted above the percentage of those crimes based on population. According to those stats between the white populate vs the back population, overwhelmingly the black population commit the most severe crimes.

And I ask the same question where are the Jesse Jackson's and the Al Sharption's of the world speaking out against black crime vs white crime. And I would add black unwed mothers vs unwed mothers of whites is not even close per the population
 
X Factor said:
Given all the posts in this thread, why are only 3 brave souls willing to take the "black lives matter" option?
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Because maybe most people aren't backwards thinking, and most people realize that all lives do matter - not just the black ones?
 
X Factor said:
Given all the posts in this thread, why are only 3 brave souls willing to take the "black lives matter" option?
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Because you asked the question in an absolutist and dishonest fashion which ignores the point of the campaign.
 
Josie said:
What annoys me about the "Black Lives Matter" people is that they only bring that out when a black person is killed by a white person (or a person who LOOKS white - Zimmerman). So really it's not "black lives matter" it's "black lives only matter when whitey kills them".
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No, they bring that out when a black person is killed by a white person and the police don't do **** about it.

That's the missing link for you, Josie. That's the part you still don't understand. It's not extra tragic just because a black person is killed. It's about due process of law.
 
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X Factor said:
Given all the posts in this thread, why are only 3 brave souls willing to take the "black lives matter" option?
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Because the poll is missing the point?
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Because you asked the question in an absolutist and dishonest fashion which ignores the point of the campaign.
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Not at all. I simply said to "pick your team". Which team are you?
 
X Factor said:
Seeing an avatar that says "black lives matter", let's just cut to the chase. Which lives matter? Don't be shy about it. Pick your team.
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More people should vote for "No lives. Everyone sucks." :mrgreen: Just sayin.
 
Deuce said:
Because if someone holds up a sign that says "all lives matter," you probably aren't going to understand the specific problem being highlighted. You'd probably just say "yep," rather than engaging on the actual issue.
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And that's a fair point, but I believe that only a relatively small minority of people are able to distinguish that nuance. The unintended consequence is that it drives people farther apart because it comes off as segregating and divisive instead of inclusive.
 
radcen said:
Why specify "black"? Why not just say "lives matter"? If you don't want separations then don't separate.
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Because the odds of being killed by a cop while unarmed are far higher if you're black. It doesn't need to be said that white lives matter, because this never happens to them, and saying all lives matter is too general to get the point across.
 
X Factor said:
Not at all. I simply said to "pick your team". Which team are you?
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That has nothing to do with the sig or whatever you saw, i'm guessing. Look at what's grabbing media attention right now and who the victims are. A statement about one group of people doesn't preclude another group. It's like if i hold up a sign saying "gay rights matter," are you gonna accuse me of implying heterosexuals shouldn't have rights?

The reason to word it this way is it *goes without saying* that the freedom of the majority is respected, but frequently not true for the minority
 
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SheWolf said:
The cumulation of this post and all your others posts in this thread shows your racial prejudice, and I am saying this in a honest way, not a personal attack, trolling kind of way. You can't argue one minute that race doesn't matter and all you see is people, and all lives matter, and then try to criticize black people for not using the hashtag when black on black crime happens. You yourself are seeing race in this discussion, and you're obviously showing bias.

You're not black, but if you care that black lives matter and think the hashtag isn't utilized properly, then next time a black person is killed in south Chicago gang violence, you can trend it yourself. You don't have to be black to show the black community support and love. It should be obvious that black lives matter no matter who takes the life.

As TPD already gave you the lecture, black lives matter to black people in the ghetto, in south side Chicago, and when another black person murders their son or brother... why do you need them to tell you that on twitter? You said to TPD, well all families care about their members, blah, blah, blah, and then your color-blinders suddenly get switched off somehow and forget what you just said.
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The simple truth is that black 'lives' DO NOT matter. They just dont. The only lives that matter are the ones that can be exploited for political gain. The causes. If 'black lives matter' then there would be a lot of people REALLY torn up over the fact that there is literally blood in the streets every weekend. But no one gives a ****. Its just another day. It doesnt matter if its a banger lying face down or a 3 year old little girl in pigtails. If a black person pulled the trigger, well **** it...thats just life in the big citay...the cost of doing business. While people are protesting in the streets over NO ONE getting killed by cops this weekend 19 black people were killed and 83 were shot.

Black lives dont matter. Just be honest already.
 
X Factor said:
Not at all. I simply said to "pick your team". Which team are you?
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See, this is what I mean. You're still doing it.

Since when does the campaign have a "team"? It is not saying anything else doesn't matter, because black lives mean.

You're not interested in having the actual conversation.
 
radcen said:
And that's a fair point, but I believe that only a relatively small minority of people are able to distinguish that nuance. The unintended consequence is that it drives people farther apart because it comes off as segregating and divisive instead of inclusive.
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If you look at pictures and video of the protests, you can see that it is a heavily interracial movement so it's definitely not divisive along racial lines so along what lines is it divisive? It's also worth noting that most of the people in this thread defending Black Lives Matter are white as well. So again, how is it divisive if so many non-black people don't have a problem with it?

EDIT: Another point worth making. Even if the movement was divisive (which it's not), so what? The women's rights, civil rights and gay rights movements were (and still are) "divisive" which means that divisiveness is not a valid critique of any movement unless the movement's purpose is to unite everybody. BLM's purpose is to raise awareness of and put a stop to unequal treatment of black people at the hands of police (and government, in general). If someone feels excluded from such a cause, I think that that's their problem. Everybody should be able to get behind that.
 
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ThePlayDrive said:
If you look at pictures and video of the protests, you can see that it is a heavily interracial movement so it's definitely not divisive along racial lines so along what lines is it divisive? It's also worth noting that most of the people in this thread defending Black Lives Matter are white as well. So again, how is it divisive if so many non-black people don't have a problem with it?

EDIT: Another point worth making. Even if the movement was divisive (which it's not), so what? The women's rights, civil rights and gay rights movements were (and still are) "divisive" which means that divisiveness is not a valid critique of any movement unless the movement's purpose is to unite everybody. BLM's purpose is to raise awareness of and put a stop to unequal treatment of black people at the hands of police (and government, in general). If someone feels excluded from such a cause, I think that that's their problem. Everybody should be able to get behind that.
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The fatal flaw in your thinking is in assuming that I meant said divisiveness falls strictly down racial lines. I never said, nor did I imply, such a thing. I talked about many people being unable to understand nuances, and the resulting said unintended consequences.
 
radcen said:
The fatal flaw in your thinking is in assuming that I meant said divisiveness falls strictly down racial lines. I never said, nor did I imply, such a thing. I talked about many people being unable to understand nuances, and the resulting said unintended consequences.
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So the movement is divisive towards people who are either too lazy to read about the movement to understand the nuances or too dumb to understand the nuances? Well, I don't consider that a problem for Black Lives Matter; I consider it a problem for the people who are lazy and/or dumb. I suspect that if people are too lazy or too dumb to understand that the Black Lives Matter movement is about raising awareness about and putting a stop to poor treatment of black people by police and government in general, they would probably be too lazy or dumb to understand it no matter how it was packaged.

What slogan or title do you think would better get the point across to the people you're talking about?
 
Deuce said:
You've definitely missed the issue.

People aren't outraged when a black person is killed. People are outraged when a black person is killed and the justice system is less effective in dealing with it.

So drop your horse**** straw man arguments about different standards. People don't want different standards. Different standards are the problem.
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Except there is no real evidence that this is happening. There is no true evidence of this "different standards" when it comes to these types of incidents, especially the recent issues we have seen. We have no real evidence that these incidents, both those that are questionable and those that are blatant violations, had anything to do with race but were rather a result of circumstances and the mindset of the officer being wrong in general, not against a certain race.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
So the movement is divisive towards people who are either too lazy to read about the movement to understand the nuances or too dumb to understand the nuances? Well, I don't consider that a problem for Black Lives Matter; I consider it a problem for the people who are lazy and/or dumb. I suspect that if people are too lazy or too dumb to understand that the Black Lives Matter movement is about raising awareness about and putting a stop to poor treatment of black people by police and government in general, they would probably be too lazy or dumb to understand it no matter how it was packaged.

What slogan or title do you think would better get the point across to the people you're talking about?
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And this is where your short-sightedness is not serving you well. You can arrogantly dismiss others as "lazy" and/or "dumb"... not very tolerant for such a proud liberal, btw... if you want, when the results don't suit your desired purpose, but reality is that only a minority of people regarding ANY issue are as heavily invested as they probably should be.
 
roguenuke said:
Except there is no real evidence that this is happening. There is no true evidence of this "different standards" when it comes to these types of incidents, especially the recent issues we have seen. We have no real evidence that these incidents, both those that are questionable and those that are blatant violations, had anything to do with race but were rather a result of circumstances and the mindset of the officer being wrong in general, not against a certain race.
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You're confusing 'evidence' with 'proof'. There's a great deal of evidence, and it's glaring us right in the face. Proving it, or proving which ones are legit, however, is more difficult.
 
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