• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is American Social Conservatism on a Permanent Decline?

Is American Social Conservatism on a Permanent Decline?

  • YES American Social Conservatism is on a Permanent Decline

    Votes: 29 72.5%

  • NO American Social Conservatism is not on a Permanent Decline. It will be Back.

    Votes: 11 27.5%
  • Total voters
    40
Ryan5

Ryan5

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
2,191
Reaction score
483
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
I firmly believe it is. Do you?


Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong | Cato @ Liberty

[h=1]Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong[/h]
052215_socialissues.png
 
Ryan5 said:
I firmly believe it is. Do you?


Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong | Cato @ Liberty

[h=1]Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong[/h]
052215_socialissues.png
Click to expand...

Social conservatism, yes. But I think today's younger crop of Republicans will eventually rebrand the conservative movement into one that focuses less on social issues, relegating it to more of a "keep it to yourself" mentality.

Our nation faces much more pressing issues than who gays can marry and who you're having sex with. And that point is lost on older generations. Us younger folk have bigger fish to fry.
 
I think it will decline to an extent, but there is always going to be a certain percentage of the population that is socially conservative. Ultimately, Social Conservatism is rooted in an authoritarian personality, and that is not just going to go away.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think it will decline to an extent, but there is always going to be a certain percentage of the population that is socially conservative. Ultimately, Social Conservatism is rooted in an authoritarian personality, and that is not just going to go away.
Click to expand...

many weak-minded people need a system of order to be imposed upon them. some others cannot handle the fact that some questions cannot be answered. Social conservatism appeals to both types
 
The OP is young methinks.



These things come and go in cycles. There have been periods where conservatives thought they had whupped liberalism for good, but it bounced back. Contrariwise there have been times vice-versa, but the Wheel turns.


Labels and definitions change also. Today's liberalism is not the liberalism of JFK, let alone Jefferson. Today's conservatism is not the conservatism of Eisenhower or Coolidge or Nixon.

Social authoritarianism was not always a feature of "conservatism" as actually practiced, and may not be again in the future. Liberalism has evolved, morphed and rebranded more than once, and will likely do so again.

A century from now the words may not mean anything like what they mean today, and ideologies resembling conservatism or liberalism may exist under some other label.


"Count no man dead until you see his body... and maybe not then."
 
akrunner88 said:
Social conservatism, yes. But I think today's younger crop of Republicans will eventually rebrand the conservative movement into one that focuses less on social issues, relegating it to more of a "keep it to yourself" mentality.
Click to expand...



It's a fascinating topic to me primarily because Americans ancestral homeland, Western Europe, has already among its political Conservatives been socially liberal politically for the last few decades. American Conservatives are simply "behind" European conservatives on social issues is the truth of the matter. The Irish gay vote was a perfect example of that (Among so many other aspects of European social liberalism as well). It's interesting to me always to hear an American conservative person be "shocked" about European conservatives social liberalism when ironically that's the exact route American conservatism is headed.

(Much to the dismay of your average US social conservative minded person).
 
Social conservatism will always be an effective social consciousness. It's issues simply evolve over time with passing victories and defeats.
 
Angry old christian white men are dying off, and they aren't being replaced.
 
beefheart said:
Angry old christian white men are dying off, and they aren't being replaced.
Click to expand...

They only typically need to be middle aged, not old, white, or men. They also need a series of identified crises or troubling developments to have something swinging. In many respects it's the previous generation reacting to the newer generation, but that's not a rule (see Vietnam, Okies).

In the 1920s it was the flapper generation and its loose social and dating habits for women and their musical taste, in the 1930s it was the Okies and the flirtation with socialism, In the 1940s and 1950s it was female teenage delinquency and rock and roll, in the 1960s and early 1970s it was drug use, war protesting, and unconventional sexual mores. In the 1980s and 1990s it was multiculturalism, immigration, teenage pregnancy, and AIDS.
 
Last edited:
beefheart said:
Angry old christian white men are dying off, and they aren't being replaced.
Click to expand...



Take a look at the recent election in Ireland.

No one can stop time and/or change.
 
Ryan5 said:
I firmly believe it is. Do you?


Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong | Cato @ Liberty

[h=1]Social Liberalism in the U.S. on the Rise, Fiscal Conservatism Remains Strong[/h]
052215_socialissues.png
Click to expand...
It's definitely on a permanent decline because most socially conservative principles are based in ignorance and isolation. For instance, opposition to same-sex marriage is based in the false notion that same-sex relationships are harmful and in the isolation anti-SSM people tend have from same-sex couples. As more people become aware of the truth that same-sex relationships are not harmful and as more people interact with same-sex couples, opposition to same-sex marriage can't do anything but decline. The same is true for other staples of social conservatism.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's definitely on a permanent decline because most socially conservative principles are based in ignorance and isolation. For instance, opposition to same-sex marriage is based in the false notion that same-sex relationships are harmful and in the isolation anti-SSM people tend have from same-sex couples. As more people become aware of the truth that same-sex relationships are not harmful and as more people interact with same-sex couples, opposition to same-sex marriage can't do anything but decline. The same is true for other staples of social conservatism.
Click to expand...
The evolution on thinking of the gay issue is entirely in one direction. There is no one, for example, who used to support gay marriage then, upon further reflection, is now opposed. It is a good sign that everyone seems to be moving in the direction of more social liberty. Eventually, you will see an equal movement toward economic liberty and wind up where the majority is socially liberal, fiscally conservative. At least I hope so.
 
Fletch said:
The evolution on thinking of the gay issue is entirely in one direction. There is no one, for example, who used to support gay marriage then, upon further reflection, is now opposed. It is a good sign that everyone seems to be moving in the direction of more social liberty. Eventually, you will see an equal movement toward economic liberty and wind up where the majority is socially liberal, fiscally conservative. At least I hope so.
Click to expand...
I think in order for people to move towards economic liberty, as you put it, more people would have to feel like they could trust their fellow citizens to not take advantage of them in that environment.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's definitely on a permanent decline because most socially conservative principles are based in ignorance and isolation. For instance, opposition to same-sex marriage is based in the false notion that same-sex relationships are harmful and in the isolation anti-SSM people tend have from same-sex couples. As more people become aware of the truth that same-sex relationships are not harmful and as more people interact with same-sex couples, opposition to same-sex marriage can't do anything but decline. The same is true for other staples of social conservatism.
Click to expand...



I agree with the isolation aspect against social conservatism. It's definitely an ideology and way of life that becomes near-impossible once you venture out of your small town, your ethnic enclave, your "comfortable pond of familiarity". Social Conservatism clearly doesn't have good shelf life with the advent of cell phones, internet and social media. You come to realize all social conservatism really is or ever was is just that, isolation from the greater world and the ability to understand and work with it.


The reactions by social conservatives to Flu Shots, vaccinations, religion, internet, millennials, we aren't witnessing a revival among social conservatives. We're witnessing the dying gasps of radicalism.




In that sense I pity social conservatives because if you truly think on it, social conservatives are more socially and politically isolated in America today than they have ever been in American history. I've seen it first hand. Social Conservatives in small towns have no ability to escape the torrential onset of social liberalism. Their daughters are all in skin-tight Yoga pants made by California/NYC Liberal designers. Their kids all have the dreaded "Socialistic Apple company":roll: iPhone and laptops.
 
akrunner88 said:
Social conservatism, yes. But I think today's younger crop of Republicans will eventually rebrand the conservative movement into one that focuses less on social issues, relegating it to more of a "keep it to yourself" mentality.

Our nation faces much more pressing issues than who gays can marry and who you're having sex with. And that point is lost on older generations. Us younger folk have bigger fish to fry.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that from your point of view, I would be considered a member of the Older Generation, but I am in pretty much the same frame of mind as you.

However, if a Conservative is defined as a person who desires the constraint of government power and reach into the lives of Citizens, states and localities, then the most Conservative position on all social issues is to stop government interference.

If a Liberal is defined as a person who embraces the reach of government into the lives of the citizens, states and localities, then the most Liberal position is the "award" freedoms to individuals and groups.

If the government is allowed to make these awards, of course the government is allowed to remove them.

The freedom to enjoy an award from the authorities is entirely different than having been endowed with an unalienable RIGHT. One is conditional on favoritism while the other is conditional only on drawing breath.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think it will decline to an extent, but there is always going to be a certain percentage of the population that is socially conservative. Ultimately, Social Conservatism is rooted in an authoritarian personality, and that is not just going to go away.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand what "rooted in an authoritarian personality" means.
 
TurtleDude said:
many weak-minded people need a system of order to be imposed upon them. some others cannot handle the fact that some questions cannot be answered. Social conservatism appeals to both types
Click to expand...



Social Conservatism seems to rest primarily on the Religious.

Religion demands that many things be accepted only on the basis of faith which is by definition questions that cannot be answered.

Is not a system of order that demands that all live peacefully and be allowed to practice all personal freedoms also a system of order?
 
Ryan5 said:
It's a fascinating topic to me primarily because Americans ancestral homeland, Western Europe, has already among its political Conservatives been socially liberal politically for the last few decades. American Conservatives are simply "behind" European conservatives on social issues is the truth of the matter. The Irish gay vote was a perfect example of that (Among so many other aspects of European social liberalism as well). It's interesting to me always to hear an American conservative person be "shocked" about European conservatives social liberalism when ironically that's the exact route American conservatism is headed.

(Much to the dismay of your average US social conservative minded person).
Click to expand...



The religious component of Social Conservatism in the USA is a result of the Republican Party cobbling together a coalition.
 
code1211 said:
I'm not sure I understand what "rooted in an authoritarian personality" means.
Click to expand...

I interpreted it as referring to the very etymology of the word "conservative". What is being conserved when speaking of conservatism is social order, along with all the various institutions and cultural mores associated with it.

Many people derive comfort from sameness and are threatened by change as an aspect of their personality. These sorts of people will be drawn to conservatism since it reinforces their psychological needs.
 
So called "social conservatism", i.e., authoritarian government telling people how to run their lives, is, thankfully, on the way out.

The sooner it is divorced from real conservatism, i.e. limited government and fiscal responsibility, the sooner the latter will see a resurgence in this country and the sooner we'll all be better off.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's definitely on a permanent decline because most socially conservative principles are based in ignorance and isolation. For instance, opposition to same-sex marriage is based in the false notion that same-sex relationships are harmful and in the isolation anti-SSM people tend have from same-sex couples. As more people become aware of the truth that same-sex relationships are not harmful and as more people interact with same-sex couples, opposition to same-sex marriage can't do anything but decline. The same is true for other staples of social conservatism.
Click to expand...



Social Conservatism does touch on that topic area.

It also touches on self reliance, self responsibility and self worth.

In my mind, for the same reasons that self determination of sexual preference is desired, self determination of all personal actions that do not harm others is also desired.

All forces that abridge the affirmative construction of self are abhorrent.

So, if a person is made more happy to be in a relationship with a person who shares their gender, that is as as welcome to me as a person who is made more happy to be in a relationship with a community of people who share a common religious affiliation.

In all cases, the rule of no harm to others is implied. I don't need to see a jackass waving his junk or his cross in my face or in the face of those around me.
 
code1211 said:
I'm not sure I understand what "rooted in an authoritarian personality" means.
Click to expand...

Social conservatives want to use the government as a vehicle to promote, endorse, and compel adherence to their own personal or religious beliefs. That is pure authoritarianism. For example, even though it would have zero impact on their lives if the same sex couple up the street were to get legal recognition of their marriage, they are still against it. They want prayer in schools because they want their religious beliefs advanced by public institutions. They want the ten commandments displayed at the courthouse because they want their religious beliefs promoted by the state. It's all authoritarianism.

Very few authoritarian regimes have not been socially conservative regardless of their politics on other issues. Even the Chinese Communist Party is pretty socially conservative on most issues.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Social conservatives want to use the government as a vehicle to promote, endorse, and compel adherence to their own personal or religious beliefs. That is pure authoritarianism. For example, even though it would have zero impact on their lives if the same sex couple up the street were to get legal recognition of their marriage, they are still against it. They want prayer in schools because they want their religious beliefs advanced by public institutions. They want the ten commandments displayed at the courthouse because they want their religious beliefs promoted by the state. It's all authoritarianism.

Very few authoritarian regimes have not been socially conservative regardless of their politics on other issues. Even the Chinese Communist Party is pretty socially conservative on most issues.
Click to expand...
Perhaps once authoritarian social conservatism is put to rest, people will focus on authoritarian social liberalism. Cant wait..
 
Gardener said:
I interpreted it as referring to the very etymology of the word "conservative". What is being conserved when speaking of conservatism is social order, along with all the various institutions and cultural mores associated with it.

Many people derive comfort from sameness and are threatened by change as an aspect of their personality. These sorts of people will be drawn to conservatism since it reinforces their psychological needs.
Click to expand...



In today's America, much of what "is" is the target of the ire of the Conservatives.

In my mind, the government is growing at an alarming rate and the regulatory authorities of the various agencies is currently in place and needs to be not just stopped, but regressed.

Liberalism, on the other hand, is a discipline that never saw an overreach it didn't like as long as that overreach started in the government.

The two political parties we currently are saddled and cursed with are both in the business of abridging personal rights and expanding Federal Government control of everything.

The conservative movement as embodied by the TEA Party is dedicated to the devolution of the Central Government strangle hold on our people.

This in no way asserts the Conservation of the status quo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom