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Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 41.4%
  • No

    Votes: 51 58.6%

  • Total voters
    87
That's the problem, you haven't. You've claimed natural rights exist. You haven't shown that they really do. People are pointing to documents written by people who believed in natural rights. That doesn't prove that they are actually real. If he can't make them go away by saying they do not exist, you cannot wish them into existence by repeating that they do. You have to present some kind of evidence that they're real and differentiate them, in reality, from the only kind of rights we can actually demonstrate exist, legal rights. The burden of proof is entirely on the shoulders of the natural rights proponents. When do you guys think you'll do more than stamp your feet and ardently demand that these things exist?

Okay. I'll concede that you have no ability to think, reason, believe, create, aspire, hope, or conceive outside of what others allow you to do. So for you natural rights don't exist. But they exist for me. And there is no force or power in the universe given to anybody or anything that can prove they do not.
 
so you are going to post a video of a 19yr old kid telling me natural rights don't exist, and that is supposed to prove your case?

I'm still waiting for you to come up with any evidence. At least that 19 year old kid tried. That makes him braver than you.
 
Okay. I'll concede that you have no ability to think, reason, believe, create, aspire, hope, or conceive outside of what others allow you to do. So for you natural rights don't exist. But they exist for me. And there is no force or power in the universe given to anybody or anything that can prove they do not.

That's not how things work in reality. Either they exist for everyone or they exist for no one. You just keep going around making empty, baseless and entirely unsupported claims and the second anyone questions your assertions, you get all emotional and irrational. Until you can back up your claims, nobody has the slightest reason to take them seriously. The fact that neither you, nor any of the other natural rights proponents don't have the slightest clue how logic works is quite telling.
 
that is the only argument they have...."they don't exist"

when you ask them to prove it, you get more of the same.

then they tell you to prove they exist, when that question should be directed at them, how can they prove they don't exist, since natural rights are part of our laws, principles, and of history of the world and america
"They"...evidently I belong to some group now. News to me.

This is absolutely provable. A natural right cannot be taken from you, nor can you give it up. So if the right to life couldn't be taken away, no one could be murderd, no one could die in a car accident, or indeed by any means other than their natural death. If the right to life couldn't be given up then no one could ever suicide; you would slide the blade across your wrist and perhaps bleed a bit, but not die.

If the right to liberty couldn't be taken away then it would be impossible to jail anyone. You would close the cell door, they would assert their right to liberty and just walk right out of prison like Hancock.

So, it's perfectly provable.
 
Have a nice day Jerry. I made my argument for why natural rights exist. And you cannot make them go away by saying over and over that they do not.
I cannot make go away something that was never here.
 
"They"...evidently I belong to some group now. News to me.

This is absolutely provable. A natural right cannot be taken from you, nor can you give it up. So if the right to life couldn't be taken away, no one could be murderd, no one could die in a car accident, or indeed by any means other than their natural death. If the right to life couldn't be given up then no one could ever suicide; you would slide the blade across your wrist and perhaps bleed a bit, but not die.

If the right to liberty couldn't be taken away then it would be impossible to jail anyone. You would close the cell doir, they would assert their right to liberty and just walk right out of prison like Hancock.

So, it's perfectly provable.

they as in people who argument and say natural rights don't exist...but do not produce any facts to prove their case...BUT their own personal words.

natural rights mean they are natural to the body, they are not anything just made up.

it is impossible to prevent the killing of another person......to secure rights means we use POSTIVE laws, to settle issues of rights violations
 
it never ceases to amaze me at people who believe they are SUBJECTS, and not free people.

Some seem to have been conditioned to see big government as necessary for their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. They are so indoctrinated with that concept, it seems impossible for them to grasp the concept of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as natural rights the government was assigned to recognize and protect rather than create. For me and for you and for a number of others such concept is real and obvious and easy to understand. But apparently not so much for those entrenched in American leftism/progressivism/statism/political class or other ideologies like that.
 
natural rights mean they are natural to the body, they are not anything just made up.
That's only part of the definition. You're describing Human Rights, not Natural Rights. Human Rights, that is rights inherent of the individual simply for being human, do certainly exist. But Natural Rights, by definition, are inalienable. All Human Rights are alienable so therefore no Human Right is a Natural Right.
 
they as in people who argument and say natural rights don't exist...but do not produce any facts to prove their case...BUT their own personal words.

The responsibility to prove something rests with those asserting the positive - in this case that natural rights do exist.

You cannot always prove something claimed or believed does not exist since it involves proving a negative. For example - nobody can prove that there are not three inch monkeys made of blue flame who play a version of professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus. But for one to assert the existence of such - they must offer proof of such a thing.
 
government is instituted to secure rights...that is it sole purpose....it is the uneducated among us, who believe government is here for other purposes.

and apparently those who can read the Preamble to the Constitution.
 
That's only part of the definition. You're describing Human Rights, not Natural Rights. Human Rights, that is rights inherent of the individual simply for being human, do certainly exist. But Natural Rights, by definition, are inalienable. All Human Rights are alienable so therefore no Human Right is a Natural Right.

do you see human rights in the constitution?

do you see INALIENABLE in the DOI?
 
and apparently those who can read the Preamble to the Constitution.

those who READ the DOI...AND UNDERSTAND OUR DOCUMENTS

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
 
the responsibility to prove something rests with those asserting the positive - in this case that natural rights do exist.

You cannot always prove something claimed or believed does not exist since it involves proving a negative. For example - nobody can prove that there are not three inch monkeys made of blue flame who play a version of professional basketball underneath the surface of uranus. But for one to assert the existence of such - they must offer proof of such a thing.

sorry the proof in on you to prove they dont exist.....because i have posted my proof ..you have not!
 
government is instituted to secure rights...that is it sole purpose....it is the uneducated among us, who believe government is here for other purposes.
Right, but being free means not having an authority over you, for better or worse.
 
do you see human rights in the constitution?

do you see INALIENABLE in the DOI?
I do see them. I also see them in the dictionary. The Founders were wrong. Life and liberty are not Natural Rights and we can prove this time and again.
 
those who READ the DOI...AND UNDERSTAND OUR DOCUMENTS

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

And if
1- the Declaration set up our government you may just have a leg to stand on.... since it does NOT , neither do you
2- and then consider the reality the men who wrote than and signed it did not believe the very crap they released to the world so neither does anyone but the naive and gullible or those engaged in denial of reality
 
sorry the proof in on you to prove they dont exist.....because i have posted my proof ..you have not!

you have posted nothing other than statements of faith from fellow believers - and that is worth less than the utilitarian value of one pound of garden manure.
 
And if
1- the Declaration set up our government you may just have a leg to stand on.... since it does NOT , neither do you
2- and then consider the reality the men who wrote than and signed it did not believe the very crap they released to the world so neither does anyone but the naive and gullible or those engaged in denial of reality

bad mouthing the founders will get you nowhere!
 
Interesting that all the discussion of the DOI fails to mention the "creator' that grants the inalienable rights. This is not 'natural' rights, this is a religious statement, and very contrary to the current use of 'natural rights' as somehow existing free of constructs such as religion and society.
 
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