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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon


  • Total voters
    133
a state seceding, is not threating the constitution.

what is the constitution?.....it is a document, which creates the structure of the federal government, delegates them few powers, and also places restrictions on that federal government.

all other powers which exist [not delegated] remain the powers of the states as they did before the constitution.


the states created the constitution

the constitution created the federal government.

the states are the guardian of the constitution because they created it.....not the federal government

Yea I have heard you say that before. But the Constitution isnt only the law of the land, it is the Union. For a State secede it has to defy that the US Constitution is the law of the land and in that State the State Government is decreeing that it will not follow the law of the land. Thus destroying the Constitution by a decree of the majority in that State. Thus also going against the Republican form of Government that the Constitution is all about. State secession is about getting rid of the Constitution. And no amount of you denying that fact will make me forget that reality.
 
Your view is dependent on the false notion that the federal government we have follows the Constitution.
 
Yea I have heard you say that before. But the Constitution isnt only the law of the land, it is the Union. For a State secede it has to defy that the US Constitution is the law of the land and in that State the State Government is decreeing that it will not follow the law of the land. Thus destroying the Constitution by a decree of the majority in that State. Thus also going against the Republican form of Government that the Constitution is all about. State secession is about getting rid of the Constitution. And no amount of you denying that fact will make me forget that reality.

the constitution is not the union......it is the states which form the compact.

by a state leaving its not defying constitution, because people of the state are excising their right to form any government they choose, they are casting off a government with they believe does not work for them, and seek to form a better government.

if a state constitution has in it that the people have the right to alter of abolish their own government, then all of the people of that state have to adhere to the law of that state as everyone does, those that don't like the law, are free have liberty to seek what they desire elsewhere.

every state in the union is supposed to be republican, however this is not true.......in the late 1800's states moved away from republican forms towards democratic forms, when this issue was brought before the USSC the court would not hear the case, because they deemed it to be a political question......this is why america has a great deal of democracy in it today, something the founders did not want to happen.

to say the people cannot leave the union is to say people are prisoners of there own government, and have no right of self government.

state secession could be two ways...1 a state wants to change it government which may be incompatible with the constitution, or 2 the state wants to secede because it wants to get out from under the control of the federal government.

what amazes me is you and others are ready to KILL, imprison, and usurp a state government, if it chooses to change its form or secede..........to apply force to people even willing to kill them if they simply wish not be part of something you wish them to be.

how did we get to this place where we are willing to kill our brother because he will not stand with us?
 
Your view is dependent on the false notion that the federal government we have follows the Constitution.

Though you didnt quote me, I'll assume that was for me.

If you feel that the US Government is a dictatorship then use your right to bear arms. Until you grow the balls to back your accusation, you are just ranting pointlessly.

Yes I acknowledge that there are plenty of things wrong, but the beauty is that (so far) the great document that our forefathers wrote is still working. And as the framers pointed out it takes constant work to keep it working. We all know that there is corruption, and we all are very concerned about the various forms of it. No one is pretending that everything is perfect. Hell this country has never been perfect. People used to keep other people like personal property despite the Constitution. But that didnt stop us from fixing that problem. Of course there were some assholes in the South that didnt want to fix that problem and they lost.

What you are pointing out is that you believe that the US Government is invalid because of its actions. So then you are not talking about a State seceding form the Constitution. You are implying revolution which is entirely different.
 
"A republican form of government is the highest form of government"

Everyone for themselves, survival of the fittest, I am better than you, fear, bigotry, ignorance, greed, cheaters, denialism, superstitions, in humane, and eat their lizard young.
 
the constitution is not the union......it is the states which form the compact.

by a state leaving its not defying constitution, because people of the state are excising their right to form any government they choose, they are casting off a government with they believe does not work for them, and seek to form a better government.

if a state constitution has in it that the people have the right to alter of abolish their own government, then all of the people of that state have to adhere to the law of that state as everyone does, those that don't like the law, are free have liberty to seek what they desire elsewhere.

every state in the union is supposed to be republican, however this is not true.......in the late 1800's states moved away from republican forms towards democratic forms, when this issue was brought before the USSC the court would not hear the case, because they deemed it to be a political question......this is why america has a great deal of democracy in it today, something the founders did not want to happen.

to say the people cannot leave the union is to say people are prisoners of there own government, and have no right of self government.

state secession could be two ways...1 a state wants to change it government which may be incompatible with the constitution, or 2 the state wants to secede because it wants to get out from under the control of the federal government.

what amazes me is you and others are ready to KILL, imprison, and usurp a state government, if it chooses to change its form or secede..........to apply force to people even willing to kill them if they simply wish not be part of something you wish them to be.

how did we get to this place where we are willing to kill our brother because he will not stand with us?



So what about those that do reject a States secession? Is the State Government going to go to their houses and force them to conform? Make them leave if they dont conform to the new State Government? I dont know about you but I am a American, was born a American, will die a American. If some assholes come to my door telling me that my property is no longer American then they will be met with bullet in their brain. Call me a asshole for shooting assholes that come wanting to take my American way of life, but thats just how I am.

proud-to-be-American%20(8)-6d025d06dc.JPG
 
"A republican form of government is the highest form of government"

Everyone for themselves, survival of the fittest, I am better than you, fear, bigotry, ignorance, greed, cheaters, denialism, superstitions, in humane, and eat their lizard young.

a republican form of government means its a more complex government then a democratic form, power is divided to prevent tyranny, while democratic forms concentrate power which causes tranny over time.


its a shame most americans do not know this!
 
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So what about those that do reject a States secession? Is the State Government going to go to their houses and force them to conform? Make them leave if they dont conform to the new State Government? I dont know about you but I am a American, was born a American, will die a American. If some assholes come to my door telling me that my property is no longer American then they will be met with bullet in their brain. Call me a asshole for shooting assholes that come wanting to take my American way of life, but thats just how I am.

proud-to-be-American%20(8)-6d025d06dc.JPG

if a state where to secede no one is going to be forced to leave the state, and no one is forced to participate in government..... that would be up to the person.
 
if a state where to secede no one is going to be forced to leave the state, and no one is forced to participate in government..... that would be up to the person.

You cant know that at all at this point. Unless you are magic. I am pretty that you are not magic. No present State even dreams of seceding just a few malcontents fantasizing about what they could impose on a States population if that pesky Constitution was not in the way.

Perhaps you accept the concept of State secession because you are all alone and have never left the State that you were born in? I mean I was born in one state grew up in another State, my family is actually form another(s). And I have friends in most of the States. I am not a New Mexican I am a American. And I may move in the future to another State. I also have friends that own property in several States. We as Americans are intertwined in many diverse ways. It would literally be impossible for a State to secede from this fine country without doing it by force. All this what if it was done peacefully is a crock of ****. Another crock of **** is trying to make it look like it would be the Federal Government protesting and forcing Americans to stay being Americans.

Secessionists are filth, and it is my right to state that they are filth. ANd I have that right because I am a American and by being a American my rights are protected. I dont trust that a State government would protect my rights nor my liberties without a system of checks and balances. removing a State from the US Constitution take away those checks and balances. Leaving the State to do whatever it pleases including killing me because I refuse to allow their usurpation of power.

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Remember its WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE STATES.
 
You cant know that at all at this point. Unless you are magic. I am pretty that you are not magic. No present State even dreams of seceding just a few malcontents fantasizing about what they could impose on a States population if that pesky Constitution was not in the way.

Perhaps you accept the concept of State secession because you are all alone and have never left the State that you were born in? I mean I was born in one state grew up in another State, my family is actually form another(s). And I have friends in most of the States. I am not a New Mexican I am a American. And I may move in the future to another State. I also have friends that own property in several States. We as Americans are intertwined in many diverse ways. It would literally be impossible for a State to secede from this fine country without doing it by force. All this what if it was done peacefully is a crock of ****. Another crock of **** is trying to make it look like it would be the Federal Government protesting and forcing Americans to stay being Americans.

Secessionists are filth, and it is my right to state that they are filth. ANd I have that right because I am a American and by being a American my rights are protected. I dont trust that a State government would protect my rights nor my liberties without a system of checks and balances. removing a State from the US Constitution take away those checks and balances. Leaving the State to do whatever it pleases including killing me because I refuse to allow their usurpation of power.

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Remember its WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE STATES.

a state leaving is still going to be still operating under law, its not going to be operating under anarchry if it secedes, the state since it takes an organized effort to secede and break the connection with the federal government.

again if a state were to secede, it would be done by the approval of the people either vote or convention, the government of the state is not going to act on its own authority, because that would not get off the ground.

the Union is made up of the states not the people.
 
a state leaving is still going to be still operating under law, its not going to be operating under anarchry if it secedes, the state since it takes an organized effort to secede and break the connection with the federal government.

again if a state were to secede, it would be done by the approval of the people either vote or convention, the government of the state is not going to act on its own authority, because that would not get off the ground.

the Union is made up of the states not the people.
No you are just making up crap again.

Thats funny I wonder how come the Constitution starts out with WE THE PEOPLE.
 
Does anyone here really believe that, were a secession election to be held in Texas, the people of that state would elect to secede?

It's an interesting question, but an academic one.

And, it seems to me it was a question that was settled via a civil war a few years back.
 
Secede? Future flag of the U.S. (post invasion):


2000px-Flag_of_Texas.svg.jpg
 
No you are just making up crap again.

Thats funny I wonder how come the Constitution starts out with WE THE PEOPLE.


do you actually believe a state is going to leave the union in a state of anarchy?.......it takes law and organization for the people to make their own self determination to secede.

if you would read about the ratification in the state conventions, the subject of "we the people" came up......because many of the founders argued it should have been "we the states",

the Preamble was put into the Constitution during the last days of the Convention by the Committee on Style, it was not a proposal or discussed at convention beforehand.

AOC created a perpetual Union of the states, the constitution seeks to create a more prefect union of the states.
 
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Does anyone here really believe that, were a secession election to be held in Texas, the people of that state would elect to secede?

It's an interesting question, but an academic one.

And, it seems to me it was a question that was settled via a civil war a few years back.

do i think it would happen...no.

but what does strike be as weird......is that americans are willing to imprison and EVEN kill other people to keep them in the union at all cost, even though there is no threat to the constitution or any Citizen via secession.

how did we get to the point of........."if you ever try to leave me i will kill you first"
 
do you actually believe a state is going to leave the union in a state of anarchy?.......it takes law and organization for the people to make their own self determination to secede.

if you would read about the ratification in the state conventions, the subject of "we the people" came up......because many of the founders argued it should have been "we the states",

the Preamble was put into the Constitution during the last days of the Convention by the Committee on Style, it was not a proposal or discussed at convention beforehand.

AOC created a perpetual Union of the states, the constitution seeks to create a more prefect union of the states.

I didnt say anything about anarchy that was all your doing. I asserted though that a State that seeks to secede is doing so as a authoritarian government well outside of the principles of the DOI and the Constitution.

ANd history shows that indeed the preamble says "We the people of the United States" See that word united? Well it means that the States are united not separate. We are not the separated states of America. We as a people are one and you will be hard pressed to dispute that fact.

As I said it would be impossible to peacefully separate a jurisdiction for this country. Socially and legally every area of this country is deeply intertwined. There is zero intellectual merit in asserting that a State could possibly for some strange reason leave this country.
 
I didnt say anything about anarchy that was all your doing. I asserted though that a State that seeks to secede is doing so as a authoritarian government well outside of the principles of the DOI and the Constitution.

ANd history shows that indeed the preamble says "We the people of the United States" See that word united? Well it means that the States are united not separate. We are not the separated states of America. We as a people are one and you will be hard pressed to dispute that fact.

As I said it would be impossible to peacefully separate a jurisdiction for this country. Socially and legally every area of this country is deeply intertwined. There is zero intellectual merit in asserting that a State could possibly for some strange reason leave this country.

how is it being authoritarian?......when the people either by convention or direct vote instruct their government what action to take...

the union... is the states not the people...

each state is sovereign and independent body....all it takes is to read the founders to discover this.
 
While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?

That is illegal under the current state constitution. The original constitution allowed it, the one created after the civil war does not.
 
how is it being authoritarian?......when the people either by convention or direct vote instruct their government what action to take...
A State Government has no authority to dictate (regardless of a vote or convention) whether to disobey the law of the land. Such a act by Said State Government would be outside of the States powers under the US Constitution. Of course you could say that once the State left the Constitution that it would no longer be required to respect the law of the land. But the act of leaving the Constitution no matter the method used, is not actually secession it is a decree by the State Government.


the union... is the states not the people...
SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.

each state is sovereign and independent body....all it takes is to read the founders to discover this.
The States are not separate countries. The USA is one country. A State is merely a Jurisdiction in that one country. By having States, Counties, and townships etc. representation is at its fullest, along with checks and balances. Removing a State from the equation is a direct ideologically coup of the founders assertions about a Republican form of Government. State secession is a insult to the founders and to the American way.

I only support the American way of Government period. If a majority of a State disagrees with the American way of government then too bad. They should realize that their treasonous actions will be dealt with. ANd if people believe that the US Government is no longer adherent to the American way of Governance then that case should be made as a people not a individual State. I means seriously a State government is just as corruptible as any other type of Government. More than likely (and plenty of data shows this) those that want a State to secede are a bunch of corrupt people anyways. Just show me one State secession group that is acting in good faith and isnt out to impose their alternate form of government? None of these people in the secession movement want to return this country to where it rightfully should be, they all want to revision history and create an entirely different form of government. A type of government that adheres to their particular ideological beliefs.
 
A State Government has no authority to dictate (regardless of a vote or convention) whether to disobey the law of the land. Such a act by Said State Government would be outside of the States powers under the US Constitution. Of course you could say that once the State left the Constitution that it would no longer be required to respect the law of the land. But the act of leaving the Constitution no matter the method used, is not actually secession it is a decree by the State Government.


SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.

The States are not separate countries. The USA is one country. A State is merely a Jurisdiction in that one country. By having States, Counties, and townships etc. representation is at its fullest, along with checks and balances. Removing a State from the equation is a direct ideologically coup of the founders assertions about a Republican form of Government. State secession is a insult to the founders and to the American way.<-------------:doh

I only support the American way of Government period. If a majority of a State disagrees with the American way of government then too bad. They should realize that their treasonous actions will be dealt with. ANd if people believe that the US Government is no longer adherent to the American way of Governance then that case should be made as a people not a individual State. I means seriously a State government is just as corruptible as any other type of Government. More than likely (and plenty of data shows this) those that want a State to secede are a bunch of corrupt people anyways. Just show me one State secession group that is acting in good faith and isnt out to impose their alternate form of government? None of these people in the secession movement want to return this country to where it rightfully should be, they all want to revision history and create an entirely different form of government. A type of government that adheres to their particular ideological beliefs.

i would suggest you read and fully understand what a republican form of government is.


A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.

The governmental or constitutional structure found in a federation is known as federalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Federation
 
do i think it would happen...no.

but what does strike be as weird......is that americans are willing to imprison and EVEN kill other people to keep them in the union at all cost, even though there is no threat to the constitution or any Citizen via secession.

how did we get to the point of........."if you ever try to leave me i will kill you first"

Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.
 
Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.

that is ridiculous, state constitutional amendments are added by a majority of people supporting it, its not all or none proposition.

no one said everyone would be happy, so where did you get that from?
 
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SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.

It would seem that the logical conclusion is that Barkmann belies in the convenient fiction that you can have states without the people that make up those very states. I guess he sees in his mind vast physical landscapes devoid of actual living breathing people and only some legal fiction called states which somehow, someway represent their own interests independent of any actual population.
 
Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.
Every single person in the state, really? Why not just a simple majority, or perhaps a 2/3 super majority or something.

There really is no precedent, or is there? How many people voted to join the Confederacy?
 
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