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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon


  • Total voters
    133
they drew them from the law of nature.

its natural to speak - pray - protest - associate - self-defense, be secure in ones self, among many others.

The law of NATURE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What the hell is that? Where does one find verifiable that such a thing exists outside of your own mental construct believing what you believe because you want to believe it?

The things you describe are ABILITIES one has because of simple biology of the species. They are NOT rights.
 
constitutional law does not apply to Citizens....only federal law does....please show in constitutional law, where it can be used on a Citizen.

The judicial branch - the US Supreme Court - has the power to interpret the Constitution and tell us what it means stepping in disputes about the document and its meaning. Can you point to the Supreme Court decision which states that the Constitution does not apply to citizen?
 
we institute government for the sole purpose to secure those natural rights.....

That is a blatant falsehood. The men who wrote the constitution told us very very clearly in plain English why they created our government in the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nothing in there about any nonsense about natural rights but a lot of other things are there as reasons for creation of our government.

You really have shown that your beliefs about the USA and its government is not based on reality.
 
The law of NATURE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What the hell is that? Where does one find verifiable that such a thing exists outside of your own mental construct believing what you believe because you want to believe it?

The things you describe are ABILITIES one has because of simple biology of the species. They are NOT rights.

sorry they are, its natural to the body to speak, pray, self defense...
 
That is a blatant falsehood. The men who wrote the constitution told us very very clearly in plain English why they created our government in the Constitution.

really?....

Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government, which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his own.
 
"If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede." ~ Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

Texas won't be leaving the union. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

Wait and see.
 
That is a blatant falsehood. The men who wrote the constitution told us very very clearly in plain English why they created our government in the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nothing in there about any nonsense about natural rights but a lot of other things are there as reasons for creation of our government.

You really have shown that your beliefs about the USA and its government is not based on reality.

establish justice..ie ....the courts, to make decisions in cases of injustice.

insure domestic Tranquility...to keep the internal union safe, and not in turmoil.

provide for the common defense....to create a military which can protect our life liberty and property from those enemies who seek seek to destroy them

promote the general Welfare ...to perform the duties of government which encompass the powers which shall preserve rights of the people of the union .

secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,<--- this is self explanatory
 
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sorry they are, its natural to the body to speak, pray, self defense...

Those are mere abilities because of biology. It has nothing to do with any claim of rights.
 
establish justice..ie ....the courts, to make decisions in cases of injustice.

insure domestic Tranquility...to keep the internal union safe, and not in turmoil.

provide for the common defense....to create a military which can protect our life liberty and property from those enemies who seek seek to destroy them

promote the general Welfare ...to perform the duties of government which encompass the powers which shall preserve rights of the people and the union .

secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,<--- this is self explanatory

While your own spin may be interesting to you - in the end its just crap you made up and does not even have the utilitarian value of a five pound bag of garden manure.
 
I say let Texas secede and then we impose very heavy sanctions until they beg US to come back in.

Well, ultimately that is the very thing that would happen. All goods and services Texas would need - which comes from outside the state - would be shutdown by the Feds or even other states.

The same thing happened during the civil war. Most of the manufacturing of goods, especially goods made of steel and/or iron were milled in the north. Even cotton gin machinery was manufactured in the north. Actually machinery of all kinds were manufactured in the north. The majority of textile mills were in the north. The list goes on and on....

And it was difficult to get England to manufacture such goods for the south. England inventors created the primary means for the industrial revolution to happen in the US.

And now, since the majority of oil imports come from Canada...well, can you see a problem here for Texas? It cost a lot of money to drill. And where does the equipment come from that make drilling possible?
 
While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?

yes, because it would rebalance politics in the rest of the US to be much more like I think they should be and what I believe would bring the most good to the most people in terms of prosperity and happiness.
 
really?....

Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government, which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his own.

This is so damn typical of the way you argue. I quote the official freakin' US CONSTITUTION which tells us why the wrote it and created the government they did create. What do you do in response - give us something that is just opinion and has no relevance in law at all.

So damn typical and it summarizes your style perfectly.
 
This is so damn typical of the way you argue. I quote the official freakin' US CONSTITUTION which tells us why the wrote it and created the government they did create. What do you do in response - give us something that is just opinion and has no relevance in law at all.

So damn typical and it summarizes your style perfectly.

Well, but don't you get it? Others in DP argument that our government was not created via the consent of the people. Therefore we live under an illegitimate government. I guess every piece of history that is evidence to the contrary is just propaganda that some mystical agent of evil was able to sneak into all of the records in the Library of Congress and other historical repositories.

The funny thing is that if the US reduced the size of government to be a "Night Watch Government". People like EB and others who subscribe to the "illegitimate government theory along with "our government should only be a "Night Watch Government" would be the first to whine and cry about not having everything that they currently bitch about because of the way our government currently operates.
 
The law of NATURE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What the hell is that?

Four words from the preamble to the Declaration of Independence? :shrug:

Where does one find verifiable that such a thing exists outside of your own mental construct believing what you believe because you want to believe it?

Maybe he believes that some people a lot smarter than you or he is figured out that not everything can be quantified or verified empirically. For example, how much happiness does the average person consume during his or her lifetime? How much would a hug from President Obama be worth to you, if anything, and what would you use as a scientific standard to measure it? How could you verify it? After all, your definition of happiness and someone else's are probably not the same.
 
Absolutely!

The loss of Texas would be well worth it in order to get rid of the Republican power base.
Getting rid of Texas would be as helpful for America as curing cancer (politically speaking).
Without Republicans, the amount of good we could do is endless.

I could not agree more. I would even contribute money for Texas secession from the rest of America! Especially with the clown, Ted Cruz, leading the way. I'm salivating at the thought! Nice post, Painter. You and I are soul mates.
 
Obviously you think that all of the social demands for funding (education, military, healthcare, etc), which are placed on the Texas government - does so mostly on its own revenues. I suggest you might spend some time finding out how much money flows into Texas via both the Federal General Funds and Discretionary Funds, which allows Texas to operate. The sovereignty of individual states exist because of the symbiotic relationships between all states and a central government.

do you understand what sovereign currency is and how it works?...
 
Well, ultimately that is the very thing that would happen. All goods and services Texas would need - which comes from outside the state - would be shutdown by the Feds or even other states.

The same thing happened during the civil war. Most of the manufacturing of goods, especially goods made of steel and/or iron were milled in the north. Even cotton gin machinery was manufactured in the north. Actually machinery of all kinds were manufactured in the north. The majority of textile mills were in the north. The list goes on and on....

And it was difficult to get England to manufacture such goods for the south. England inventors created the primary means for the industrial revolution to happen in the US.

And now, since the majority of oil imports come from Canada...well, can you see a problem here for Texas? It cost a lot of money to drill. And where does the equipment come from that make drilling possible?

so you decided to concoct a wholly different hypothetical scenario instead of sticking with the OP's hypothetical.

seems to be a common theme around here....

and once again, why are you ignoring that Texas would necessarily issue sovereign currency?... most likely through a chartered bank.
you know, just like the US government does.
 
I could not agree more. I would even contribute money for Texas secession from the rest of America! Especially with the clown, Ted Cruz, leading the way. I'm salivating at the thought! Nice post, Painter. You and I are soul mates.

yes, it's not uncommon to find folks online who desire a 1 party/1 ideology rule... though most are smart enough to understand why that's not a good thing.
 
The judicial branch - the US Supreme Court - has the power to interpret the Constitution and tell us what it means stepping in disputes about the document and its meaning. Can you point to the Supreme Court decision which states that the Constitution does not apply to citizen?

did you seriously just ask this question?..hollyyyyyyy ****.... wow.

the entire document.. all of it.. every single word of it.... pertains to government and government only.

he's entirely correct... federal law applies to the people, the US Constitution does not.
 
yes, because it would rebalance politics in the rest of the US to be much more like I think they should be and what I believe would bring the most good to the most people in terms of prosperity and happiness.

Best "yes" answer given so far. Would add to that not only would it rebalance power in the rest of the U.S. in such a way that better reflects the wishes of the Anericans remaining behind, but it would also rebalance power within Texas to give Texans a government closer to what they're looking for
 
so you decided to concoct a wholly different hypothetical scenario instead of sticking with the OP's hypothetical.

seems to be a common theme around here....

and once again, why are you ignoring that Texas would necessarily issue sovereign currency?... most likely through a chartered bank.
you know, just like the US government does.

Obviously you thinking that creating a domestic currency is the cure all. You still can't see how the states have become truly a "union". There is genuinely a symbiotic relationship that you aren't acknowledging.

So be it. :shrug:
 
It would appear that the propaganda of our enemies is being spoon fed certain groups and individuals.
 
That is a blatant falsehood. The men who wrote the constitution told us very very clearly in plain English why they created our government in the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nothing in there about any nonsense about natural rights but a lot of other things are there as reasons for creation of our government.

You really have shown that your beliefs about the USA and its government is not based on reality.

no, it's not a falsehood.. it is the very basis for the social contract.

the government sole duty under the social contract is to serve the people by protecting their life, liberty, and property.



I have no clue what you think the US is, or what you think what it's philosophical underpinnings are... but it's completely obvious you haven't paid any attention to our history whatsoever..

natural law is the very foundation of our declaration of Independence, and the US Constitution ( as well as the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen)
there is no good reason for you to be utterly ignorant of this stuff... none whatsoever.
 
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