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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

  • Total voters
    133
Ryan5 said:
Secessionists have never been realists. It's an emotion-driven ideology. They resort to cussing at individuals who start to rationalize actual secession. They have no actual logic. It's all emotion with no plan. They don't even factor in the racial demographics of Texas or places that are critical to Texas such as Houston which is full of blacks and mexicans. They aren't rational.
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well, most of your babble isn't worth spit... but one thing did catch my eye.

what on earth does race have to do with anything?
 
 
roguenuke said:
Bull ****. Texas doesn't have any one "by the balls" because the US can last a whole lot longer without Texas than Texas can with sanctions imposed.

And the same thing you describe happening would happen anyway if Texas left the US, so it would be a losing situation for the US to allow Texas to leave anyway.

Show me which Fortune 500 companies would support Texas secession from the US first. Not just those that are based in Texas, but actually would support a secession. Evidence of this support please.
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it's true the USA would hold out longer than Texas... and it's also true that the US would suffer greatly as well.


in any event, y'all are still stuck on civil wars.... the bloodlust runs strong, i guess.

I'll check back in later to see if we're back on topic or not.
 
Thrilla said:
I don't think it would come to that either... but I dunno, from reading the folks in this thread, I think we've underestimated the blood-lust... these folks can't even conceive of a peaceful secession... the only things in their heads is war, destruction, slaughter, and blood.
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Some people are butthurt that we would even entertain the idea that we Texans might be better off without them. They resent our conservative values and our independent spirit. They resent that they can't kick us around at will.

Losing Texas would be terrible for the U.S. and be a huge sign of weakness a la the breakup of the Soviet Union, so no doubt they would do all they could to hang on to us. But I don't believe war or sanctions would be feasible options. I think they inevitably would have to bribe us to stay, that's my hunch.
 
I would donate money toward the secession of California.....either that or selling it to Mexico.
 
Thrilla said:
what on earth does race have to do with anything?
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This map might argue, to the educated eye, that race might have a lot to do with a great many things as Rhett Butler might say :p

33KDjvn.jpg

KC3DfzT.jpg


You see those areas in blue on the last map good sir (and the areas in red on the first map)? Those are Democrat Party ideological strongholds in Texas. They will not go for Secession good sir. I'm sure you have already factored that in but I just wanted to make sure.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Some people are butthurt that we would even entertain the idea that we Texans might be better off without them. They resent our conservative values and our independent spirit. They resent that they can't kick us around at will.

Losing Texas would be terrible for the U.S. and be a huge sign of weakness a la the breakup of the Soviet Union, so no doubt they would do all they could to hang on to us. But I don't believe war or sanctions would be feasible options. I think they inevitably would have to bribe us to stay, that's my hunch.
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Most of my siblings live in East Texas, aka "the swamp". Texas has humidity, hurricanes, tornados, fleas, ticks, and the Bush family, all detrimental (in ascending order) to quality of life.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Some people are butthurt that we would even entertain the idea that we Texans might be better off without them. They resent our conservative values and our independent spirit. They resent that they can't kick us around at will.

Losing Texas would be terrible for the U.S. and be a huge sign of weakness a la the breakup of the Soviet Union, so no doubt they would do all they could to hang on to us. But I don't believe war or sanctions would be feasible options. I think they inevitably would have to bribe us to stay, that's my hunch.
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it's not really the details that bug me... it's the very idea that so many folks here virulently oppose self-determination.
they would have you dead before they allowed you live under a government of your choosing.... it's so very ...American :roll:
 
Ryan5 said:
This map might argue, to the educated eye, that race might have a lot to do with a great many things as Rhett Butler might say :p

33KDjvn.jpg

KC3DfzT.jpg


You see those areas in blue on the last map good sir (and the areas in red on the first map)? Those are Democrat Party ideological strongholds in Texas. They will not go for Secession good sir. I'm sure you have already factored that in but I just wanted to make sure.
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I'[ve seen your maps... you need to explain why you think race is a factor in any of this

it's your argument to make, not mine to guess at.
 
roguenuke said:
Bull ****. Texas doesn't have any one "by the balls" because the US can last a whole lot longer without Texas than Texas can with sanctions imposed.

And the same thing you describe happening would happen anyway if Texas left the US, so it would be a losing situation for the US to allow Texas to leave anyway.

Show me which Fortune 500 companies would support Texas secession from the US first. Not just those that are based in Texas, but actually would support a secession. Evidence of this support please.
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They're already in Texas. Show you evidence of the status quo? Tell you what, since you're making the assertion, why don't you show me evidence that these companies would leave, and that they would have the means to do so, and I'll await your reply.

If you don't think cutting off one tenth of the Fortune 500 would tank the stock market, that's on you.

If you don't think millions of Anericans depend on the stock market for retirement income, that's on you.

If you don't think American presidents have Wall Street backers who depend on a healthy stock market, that's on you

If you don't think Texas resources like defense contractors, semiconductor makers and oil giants are essential to the U.S. Economy, that's on you.

If you think the American president, who is elected by all these people who would be harmed, would do whatever he could to avoid such repercussions, that's on you as well.

As far as I'm concerned, these things are unarguable.

And to say you can "outlast" Texas is wrong as well. It's not in Americas character to "outlast" anyone. We're an instant gratification culture. We don't have it in our character to scrape by for a cause, we want our SUV's and our flat screens and our cheeseburgers. That's who we are.

Texas, on the other hand, would be struggling for independence. A man fighting for his home turf is going to outlast, outfight, and out-will anyone trying to do harm from the outside.
 
Thrilla said:
I'[ve seen your maps... you need to explain why you think race is a factor in any of this

it's your argument to make, not mine to guess at.
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That dude clearly doesn't understand Texas. He's giving us a map, I live here and travel all around the state constantly.
 
Thrilla said:
it's true the USA would hold out longer than Texas... and it's also true that the US would suffer greatly as well.


in any event, y'all are still stuck on civil wars.... the bloodlust runs strong, i guess.

I'll check back in later to see if we're back on topic or not.
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According to those who back this, the US would suffer more by letting Texas go, so why do that? In reality, such a push would be squashed before it started because the federal government would almost certainly turn up the heat on Texans and more specifically Texas based companies.

Now, if secession still appeared likely, then the plans would be drawn up to stop it as soon as the vote was final. US military forces would be in their faster than anything. And while I'm certain Texans wanting secession would put up a fight, they would not stand much chance against the US military, along with sanctions. It may very well cost the US money, but would be worth it in the eyes of many to do so. Plus, we would almost certainly "charge" Texas for such a thing. And all these things and more would be put out to the people of Texas prior to any vote. They would see that such a thing would not be taken lightly.
 
UtahBill said:
Most of my siblings live in East Texas, aka "the swamp". Texas has humidity, hurricanes, tornados, fleas, ticks, and the Bush family, all detrimental (in ascending order) to quality of life.
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I'm on a plane from Salt Lake to Dallas. You know what's detrimental to the quality of life...the fact that half your state is completely dead due to all the salt in the ground. Looks like you're on the moon.

Mountains are beautiful though.
 
Peter Grimm said:
They're already in Texas. Show you evidence of the status quo? Tell you what, since you're making the assertion, why don't you show me evidence that these companies would leave, and that they would have the means to do so, and I'll await your reply.

If you don't think cutting off one tenth of the Fortune 500 would tank the stock market, that's on you.

If you don't think millions of Anericans depend on the stock market for retirement income, that's on you.

If you don't think American presidents have Wall Street backers who depend on a healthy stock market, that's on you

If you don't think Texas resources like defense contractors, semiconductor makers and oil giants are essential to the U.S. Economy, that's on you.

If you think the American president, who is elected by all these people who would be harmed, would do whatever he could to avoid such repercussions, that's on you as well.

As far as I'm concerned, these things are unarguable.

And to say you can "outlast" Texas is wrong as well. It's not in Americas character to "outlast" anyone. We're an instant gratification culture. We don't have it in our character to scrape by for a cause, we want our SUV's and our flat screens and our cheeseburgers. That's who we are.

Texas, on the other hand, would be struggling for independence. A man fighting for his home turf is going to outlast, outfight, and out-will anyone trying to do harm from the outside.
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You seem to not understand. Any talk of secession being likely in Texas would begin to be fought by the US government long before any vote ever made it up to the Texas state government. The first people that the US government would discuss the situation with would be those Fortune 500 companies. There is no way that the majority of them would support secession, but that would be even more cemented by the federal government showing them the outcome of secession. Then you would have at least the majority of those companies pushing against secession, including almost certainly an overwhelming campaign to gain opposition to the proposal. Then, if it still lost, many of these companies could simply help to usher in the federal troops, especially if they got some benefits from the government for opposing the secession and/or supporting the federal government as they came through to take down the secessionists.
 
roguenuke said:
According to those who back this, the US would suffer more by letting Texas go, so why do that? In reality, such a push would be squashed before it started because the federal government would almost certainly turn up the heat on Texans and more specifically Texas based companies.

Now, if secession still appeared likely, then the plans would be drawn up to stop it as soon as the vote was final. US military forces would be in their faster than anything. And while I'm certain Texans wanting secession would put up a fight, they would not stand much chance against the US military, along with sanctions. It may very well cost the US money, but would be worth it in the eyes of many to do so. Plus, we would almost certainly "charge" Texas for such a thing. And all these things and more would be put out to the people of Texas prior to any vote. They would see that such a thing would not be taken lightly.
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Neither side would suffer if the breakup were amicable. We could form a trade union similar to the EU, and have a mutual defense treaty. Texans don't dislike America, they love America, they just want a Jeffersonian democracy that's more in line with the original intent of the constitution.

We'll have our own president, we'll lower taxes and have a smaller govt, we'll pray in school and guns will be legal, we won't have obamacare. But via treaties and such, would be happy to continue to trade freely and cooperate on defense matters
 
roguenuke said:
You seem to not understand. Any talk of secession being likely in Texas would begin to be fought by the US government long before any vote ever made it up to the Texas state government. The first people that the US government would discuss the situation with would be those Fortune 500 companies. There is no way that the majority of them would support secession, but that would be even more cemented by the federal government showing them the outcome of secession. Then you would have at least the majority of those companies pushing against secession, including almost certainly an overwhelming campaign to gain opposition to the proposal. Then, if it still lost, many of these companies could simply help to usher in the federal troops, especially if they got some benefits from the government for opposing the secession and/or supporting the federal government as they came through to take down the secessionists.
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So now we're back on troops again?
 
Thrilla said:
I'[ve seen your maps... you need to explain why you think race is a factor in any of this

it's your argument to make, not mine to guess at.
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You think those Dark Blue areas of Mexicans on that map that voted twice for Obama are going to support Texas Session? You think the Dark Blue area of Houston with all those blacks and Mexicans that voted for Obama twice, you truly think they're going to sit there while you seceded?

This is delusion. Pure delusion with no actual logic.

KC3DfzT.jpg
 
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Peter Grimm said:
Neither side would suffer if the breakup were amicable. We could form a trade union similar to the EU, and have a mutual defense treaty. Texans don't dislike America, they love America, they just want a Jeffersonian democracy that's more in line with the original intent of the constitution.

We'll have our own president, we'll lower taxes and have a smaller govt, we'll pray in school and guns will be legal, we won't have obamacare. But via treaties and such, would be happy to continue to trade freely and cooperate on defense matters
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The break would not be amicable. There is no way around that. You do not maintain your training bases in another country. You do not maintain a good portion of your military in another country on a regular, permanent basis. These things would take money to change.

Then on the other side, most Texans do not realize nearly the costs that would incur trying to set up a sovereign nation, including setting up the various systems and agencies in place already thanks to the US government. There's the military, including new equipment costs and paying for bases. There would be obvious questions about those from Texas in military service in the US military (they signed contracts, and many of the career service members would be expensive to pay for if Texas offered to buy out their contracts, offering them equal time for their service to retirement). Then there's the post office, foreign embassies, spy networks (lord knows those would be necessary), and so many more. And there is very little reason that the US government would not demand that Texas compensate them for "national land". Establishing a currency takes money. Texas would have to provide their own border patrol, TSA type agency, drug enforcement type agency, and other agencies for things that the US government usually deals with.
 
Ryan5 said:
You think those Dark Blue areas of Mexicans on that map that voted twice for Obama are going to support Texas Session? You think the Dark Blue area of Houston with all those blacks and Mexicans that voted for Obama twice, you truly think they're going to sit there while you seceded?

This is delusion. Pure delusion with no actual logic.
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I think they would, yes. Support for Texas doesn't fall along party lines. Mexicans in Texas are for the most part very patriotic and love Texas.

The only area that would object would be Austin.

But, I believe Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico would want to leave with us for sure. Louisiana, and even Alabama would be candidates as well.

You talk of those in Texas who wouldn't support us, you'll be surprised how many outside of Texas would support us
 
Peter Grimm said:
So now we're back on troops again?
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It would happen if there was a vote in favor of secession. If the US is willing to use troops to support integration, to support a SCOTUS ruling is enforced, then there is no way they would not use troops if necessary to prevent a secession.

As I've said though, that is a very unlikely scenario because there is little chance that the US government would not fight serious efforts to get a secession vote brought up without fighting it from many different directions. Hell, before a secession vote was taken, they could simply screw up the economy of a city near one of the US bases by posting the businesses as "off limits" to military personnel. And yes, this would be an underhanded tactic, but still one almost certainly likely and probably viewed as a necessary evil in comparison to having to send in troops or set up sanctions against Texas.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I think they would, yes. Support for Texas doesn't fall along party lines. Mexicans in Texas are for the most part very patriotic and love Texas.

The only area that would object would be Austin.

But, I believe Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico would want to leave with us for sure. Louisiana, and even Alabama would be candidates as well.

You talk of those in Texas who wouldn't support us, you'll be surprised how many outside of Texas would support us
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Not enough would support you. There is this belief that just because people joke about dropping one of our states or even some of them, that means that this is real, informed support. In reality, once you point out the many issues of us allowing any state to secede, many would be a lot less likely to support it.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I think they would, yes. Support for Texas doesn't fall along party lines. Mexicans in Texas are for the most part very patriotic and love Texas.

The only area that would object would be Austin.

But, I believe Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico would want to leave with us for sure. Louisiana, and even Alabama would be candidates as well.

You talk of those in Texas who wouldn't support us, you'll be surprised how many outside of Texas would support us
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As a fellow Texan, I don't mean to offend anyone's "Pristine Republican Esq View of Texas" yet anyone who thinks that these Hard-Blue Democrat voting blocs that voted for Obama twice are going to "Support Secession" is simply naive. They will not (and do not). They'd instantly request military aid from the US and the US military aid would be near immediate.

M2cKFOL.png


You cannot have secession without unanimous support overall which you do not have even remotely so.
 
Ryan5 said:
You think those Dark Blue areas of Mexicans on that map that voted twice for Obama are going to support Texas Session? You think the Dark Blue area of Houston with all those blacks and Mexicans that voted for Obama twice, you truly think they're going to sit there while you seceded?

This is delusion. Pure delusion with no actual logic.

KC3DfzT.jpg
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it's cute that you believe a decision to peacefully and democratically secede is dependent on race and political party afiliation... and it's super cute you accusing others of lacking logic.
 
spud_meister said:
Which is only possible with the assent of either every other state or the federal government.
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exactly...

a peaceful secession inherently means a diplomatic agreement has been reached with the other states through some mechanism or another.
if no agreement such agreement is reached, then we're no longer talking about a peaceful secession.

too many folks here go right to civil war, slaughter, sanctions, nuclear subs ..blablabla... do not pass go, do not collect $200.

above all, it's hypothetical.. and academic exercise.... and people are still losing their ****
 
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