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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

  • Total voters
    133
BrewerBob said:
Says me. It is a value judgment. An opinion. Hence my use of the word "should" in my sentence.
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You're certainly welcome to your opinion but nobody but you has to take any value in it. It only becomes worthwhile when you can rationally justify it for others.
 
ernst barkmann said:
this would only be an assumption.....

the u.s. government would have to come in and take over the state by marshal law, and subdue the people, and maybe even kill, which would not be good go them because others all different states would rally against the government, and they would have to act against all states, this would bring in a already small tired military, which part of the military is not going to obey the federal government.
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You mean it could cause some sort of, let's see, what's that called? Oh yeah. Civil War. How well did that work out before for those states trying to leave?
 
shrubnose said:
BS, why should the US government pay the costs involved for those who want to leave the USA? There's no such thing as a free lunch.
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i'm fine with a 10 dollar processing fee....but even that is unnecessary, as the state dept is already funded by taxes.

none of that has any bearing on the stupidity of the "love it or leave it" argument, nor the hatred behind it.
 
shrubnose said:
The door is wide open but you have to pay before you pass through it.

Did anyone on this forum ever get a free passport?
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yeah.. and everyone can drive a Mercedes... but you have to pay for it first. ;)

my passport cost 2 bucks.... but the fee was waived for active duty service members back then
 
No.

(As a Texan myself)

Reasons:


-The North is richer and more educated and has deeper class structure than the South thanks to the Civil War and past Northern industrialization. I'd say the Northern US is 50-75 years ahead of the South in terms of socioeconomic wealth.

-Nearly 50% of Texas is a mix of Hispanic/Amerindian/Mexican (non Anglo/Germanic European).

-Texas is 12% black. Parts of Houston, Dallas and other cities would simply start to burn once the Federal welfare benefits stopped coming in.

-Many modern "Secessionists" do not understand that Texas's economy is massively dependent on Federal military expenditures and the like. (NASA, US BASES, NAVY, ARMY, AIR FORCE) to name a few. Texas's economy would crash in 10 minutes without it.

-Texas's minority populations would become ungovernable because their Federal welfare benefits would stop. Texas's minority Hispanic/Amerindian populations are heavily located on the Mexican border for hundreds of miles. In many areas of South Texas, we're talking for hundreds of miles, there's less than 10% whites in any of those areas. The rest is 90% Mexican in many of those areas. It's very likely if Texas seceded that much of Southern Texas on the Mexican border would soon be Mexico for all legal intensive purposes or at minimum a "quasi unfunded Mexican state". Texas wouldn't be able to afford to govern those areas because they're completely currently dependent on the Federal government. Texas as a country wouldn't be able to afford to continue to subsidize them as the US Fed does currently.

This is basically what Texas's Southern border would look like (actually this is what Texas currently looks like, imagine if you took away the Mexicans Federal benefits).

l8ebr6D.jpg
 
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Thrilla said:
yeah.. and everyone can drive a Mercedes... but you have to pay for it first. ;)

my passport cost 2 bucks.... but the fee was waived for active duty service members back then
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Yeah she was expensive too. :2razz:

 
Ryan5 said:
No.

(As a Texan myself)

Reasons:


-The North is richer and more educated and has deeper class structure than the South thanks to the Civil War and past Northern industrialization. I'd say the Northern US is 50-75 years ahead of the South in terms of socioeconomic wealth.

-Nearly 50% of Texas is a mix of Hispanic/Amerindian/Mexican (non Anglo/Germanic European).

-Texas is 12% black. Parts of Houston, Dallas and other cities would simply start to burn once the Federal welfare benefits stopped coming in.

-Many modern "Secessionists" do not understand that Texas's economy is massively dependent on Federal military expenditures and the like. (NASA, US BASES, NAVY, ARMY, AIR FORCE) to name a few. Texas's economy would crash in 10 minutes without it.

-Texas's minority populations would become ungovernable because their Federal welfare benefits would stop. Texas's minority Hispanic/Amerindian populations are heavily located on the Mexican border for hundreds of miles. In many areas of South Texas, we're talking for hundreds of miles, there's less than 10% whites in any of those areas. The rest is 90% Mexican in many of those areas. It's very likely if Texas seceded that much of Southern Texas on the Mexican border would soon be Mexico for all legal intensive purposes or at minimum a "quasi unfunded Mexican state". Texas wouldn't be able to afford to govern those areas because they're completely currently dependent on the Federal government. Texas as a country wouldn't be able to afford to continue to subsidize them as the US Fed does currently.

This is basically what Texas's Southern border would look like (actually this is what Texas currently looks like, imagine if you took away the Mexicans Federal benefits).

l8ebr6D.jpg
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I have 2 words for you that put a massive wrench into your analysis.

sovereign currency.

you should probably learn what it's all about before you go believing that federal funds drying up in Texas would mean anything.
 
Thrilla said:
I have 2 words for you that put a massive wrench into your analysis.

sovereign currency.

you should probably learn what it's all about before you go believing that federal funds drying up in Texas would mean anything.
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You have to have people willing to recognize your currency, something not likely to happen quick enough to actually save Texas from the problems he listed.
 
Peter Grimm said:
While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?
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Of course. Self governance is a founding principle of the US. We fought a war against Britain for that very right.
 
roguenuke said:
You have to have people willing to recognize your currency, something not likely to happen quick enough to actually save Texas from the problems he listed.
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you think Texas would wait until after disunion to address the issue of sovereign currency?... seriously?
 
Thrilla said:
I have 2 words for you that put a massive wrench into your analysis.

sovereign currency.

you should probably learn what it's all about before you go believing that federal funds drying up in Texas would mean anything.
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Actually that doesn't even make sense. (in typical secessionist fashion)



Texas's economy would simply crash. The US govt. would not recognize any Texas currency (it wouldn't matter as it'd be worthless) which means Texas would have no economy. Though the US wouldn't even have to do that. Texas would simply break up into regional factions. It would basically have no Southern border. The blacks and Mexicans would burn down completely the city of Houston (economic hub of Texas) once their Federal benefits stopped coming in.


Your premise makes no sense. No US ally would recognize a "Texas currency".

Not only that. I don't think you realize that historically speaking the Confederacy was an economically Communist Esq bloc in how it functioned. It forced its members to give it resources. Many a university professor with a Communist slant romanticizes that the Southern Confederacy was true, "Pure" Communism (and it sorta was).
 
Thrilla said:
you think Texas would wait until after disunion to address the issue of sovereign currency?... seriously?
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They couldn't establish their own currency legitimately without declaring their intent while still attached to the U.S.
 
Ryan5 said:
Actually that doesn't even make sense. (in typical secessionist fashion)



Texas's economy would simply crash. The US govt. would not recognize any Texas currency (it wouldn't matter as it'd be worthless) which means Texas would have no economy. Though the US wouldn't even have to do that. Texas would simply break up into regional factions. It would basically have no Southern border. The blacks and Mexicans would burn down completely the city of Houston (economic hub of Texas) once their Federal benefits stopped coming in.


Your premise makes no sense. No US ally would recognize a "Texas currency".

Not only that. I don't think you realize that historically speaking the Confederacy was an economically Communist Esq bloc in how it functioned. It forced its members to give it resources. Many a university professor with a Communist slant romanticizes that the Southern Confederacy was true, "Pure" Communism (and it sorta was).
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why are you assuming the US wouldn't recognize their currency?
 
roguenuke said:
They couldn't establish their own currency legitimately without declaring their intent while still attached to the U.S.
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well duh.... are you under the impression we're talking about a secession effort like what occurred in the 1860s?
 
Thrilla said:
why are you assuming the US wouldn't recognize their currency?
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Why would they? The first thing they're going to do is stop funding NASA and all Federal military outlets in Texas which alone would completely end the Texas economy. Why does "Currency" even matter at that point? Texas would be in the equivalent of 500 great depressions.

Not to mentioned Houston would be half burned to the ground by that point likely and Mexico might have annexed Southern Texas.
 
Ryan5 said:
Why would they? The first thing they're going to do is stop funding NASA and all Federal military outlets in Texas which alone would completely end the Texas economy. Why does "Currency" even matter at that point? Texas would be in the equivalent of 500 great depressions.

Not to mentioned Houston would be half burned to the ground by that point likely and Mexico might have annexed Southern Texas.
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I have no idea what scenario is playing out in your head.. but it's nothing like what I have in mind, nor the OP.
 
No. Because Texas would be just another country we would have to send money to. :roll:
 
Thrilla said:
I have no idea what scenario is playing out in your head.. but it's nothing like what I have in mind, nor the OP.
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Oh no yes that's all very apparent to me and others trust me. Rest assured. We know you have no idea.



On a side note, if Texas were to secede the only likely way to do it would be with Russian and Chinese nuclear submarine tactical support via the Gulf of Mexico. That's the only way it could work and potential sustain more than a week. And I don't think that would or could work even. Otherwise any idea of Texas succession is delusioal and niave. You need foreign support from other powerful military nations.

(All of this none of which your average "Secessionist simpleton" has even began to fathom on even a remote level (most of them aren't intellectually capable).
 
ernst barkmann said:
this would only be an assumption.....

the u.s. government would have to come in and take over the state by marshal law, and subdue the people, and maybe even kill, which would not be good go them because others all different states would rally against the government, and they would have to act against all states, this would bring in a already small tired military, which part of the military is not going to obey the federal government.
Click to expand...

I can't see that happening, as much as Texans fantasize about another civil war. The US government would arrest the leaders and then reincorporate Texas, or bring economic pressure to bear until they gave up.
 
Ryan5 said:
Oh no yes that's all very apparent to me and others trust me. Rest assured. We know you have no idea.



On a side note, if Texas were to secede the only likely way to do it would be with Russian and Chinese nuclear submarine tactical support via the Gulf of Mexico. That's the only way it could work and potential sustain more than a week. And I don't think that would or could work even. Otherwise any idea of Texas succession is delusioal and niave. You need foreign support from other powerful military nations.

(All of this none of which your average "Secessionist simpleton" has even began to fathom on even a remote level (most of them aren't intellectually capable).
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i'm in too good of a mood to deal with an asshole... go play out the sick fantasies in your head on your own time.
 
spud_meister said:
I can't see that happening, as much as Texans fantasize about another civil war. The US government would arrest the leaders and then reincorporate Texas, or bring economic pressure to bear until they gave up.
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the thread isn't about a civil war.. it's about a peaceful and democratic secession.
 
Thrilla said:
well duh.... are you under the impression we're talking about a secession effort like what occurred in the 1860s?
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The nation would quickly call them on it and basically butch slap them for such an attempt. There is no reason anyone would recognize their sovereign currency, especially when any such attempt to secede would be challenged by the US government, which would lead many, if not all, US allies to refuse to recognize any such currency due to the fact that the commodity that that currency would be based off of would have to be presumed to not actually belong to Texas without recognizing Texas' sovereignty, something that would put them in opposition to the US.
 
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