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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

  • Total voters
    133
disneydude said:
It would be the final nail in the coffin for the Republican party on a national level. There is no chance of winning a Presidential election if they don't have Texas.
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that's definitely cause for concern.

not that Texans should be concerned about the political parties in their former country.. but when one of those parties is chock full of people with a strong dislike of self determination, they should be concerned about an impending invasion and recapturing of the wayward state.
 
Removable Mind said:
It doesn't matter. The complexities of our state's infrastructure depends on its Federal Government ties.
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it doesn't inherently depend on federal government ties... nor does secession necessarily negate such ties.

severing political affiliation doesn't mean the 2 nations would be bound to ignore each other...

Texas is rich in resources.. no doubt about it... .far richer than most other nations, even many western nations such as norway, sweden, finland, the UK, etc...

Texas isn't special in this regards.. hell, California could make in on their own, Alaska, Hawaii.. maybe even NY... possibly Florida.
south dakota is pretty much screwed though :lol:
 
ernst barkmann said:
Texas would be the 14th largest economy in the world by GDP more then South Korea and the Netherlands.
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No, Texas would wind up being another suffering nation like North Korea. It's resources aren't inexhaustible and it relies and a much needed financial networks within the U.S. Texas' infrastructure, you know, things like its education system, it's military, its health care system WOULD COLLAPSE!
 
Thrilla said:
it doesn't inherently depend on federal government ties... nor does secession necessarily negate such ties.

severing political affiliation doesn't mean the 2 nations would be bound to ignore each other...

Texas is rich in resources.. no doubt about it... .far richer than most other nations, even many western nations such as norway, sweden, finland, the UK, etc...

Texas isn't special in this regards.. hell, California could make in on their own, Alaska, Hawaii.. maybe even NY... possibly Florida.
south dakota is pretty much screwed though :lol:
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Yes, it does rely - it is an interdependent state.
 
DA60 said:
So many of you talk about the law. The law is totally irrelevant here.

So if 100% of Texans voted to leave America, some of you would be against it because it is against the law? That is ridiculous. The will of the vast majority has to take preference over the law.

If all you care about is the law, then I suppose you support a law that cuts off people's hands for shoplifting...assuming it is already on the books? Or do you just support laws you like?

The law is not there to restrict the will of the people. And if it is - then it is a bad law and should be ignored. And if the will of the vast majority of ANY region is to leave America, they should be allowed to do it. The only stipulation would be that they take their share of the national debt on a per capita basis. Otherwise, Bon voyage.

Once you start forcing people to stay in a country against their will, then you are the Soviet Union on that score.

As far as I am concerned, if 50%+1 Texans want to leave America and agree to take their share of the national debt with them...they should be allowed to leave; and I don't even begin to care if the Constitution says they can't.
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As a native Texan for decades...I can assure you that there will never a consensus of Texas citizens that would constitute "the will of the people".

The consequences of leaving the Union would be profound and in the end, be dire. When one makes a serious inventory of what resources would be required to become an independent state/nation - even with all of the natural resources in Texas - they simply aren't enough to deal with all of the social issues, which Texas relies on Federal assistance.

The United States would have Texas on its knees - by imposing sanctions of all types that would, within a relevantly short time, virtually paralyze the Texas government. No state, including Texas is a rich enough in resources or treasure to defy the United States, which "some consider the world's most powerful country". Now that claim is debatable, but still a very significant power.

Call the US a totalitarian government, but the states are interdependent upon each other.
 
Removable Mind said:
No, Texas would wind up being another suffering nation like North Korea. It's resources aren't inexhaustible and it relies and a much needed financial networks within the U.S. Texas' infrastructure, you know, things like its education system, it's military, its health care system WOULD COLLAPSE!
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that would only be your opinion
 
ernst barkmann said:
Texas would be the 14th largest economy in the world by GDP more then South Korea and the Netherlands.
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according to wiki, you got their ranking correct.. but the Netherlands ( ranked 18)GDP is about half of Texas's state GDP(.... wiki puts them between spain and mexico... though these are 2012 rankings.

Cali, if it were to secede, would be ranked 10th..Texas 14th
 
Removable Mind said:
No, Texas would wind up being another suffering nation like North Korea. It's resources aren't inexhaustible and it relies and a much needed financial networks within the U.S. Texas' infrastructure, you know, things like its education system, it's military, its health care system WOULD COLLAPSE!
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well, that escalated quickly.

:roll:
 
Removable Mind said:
Call the US a totalitarian government, but the states are interdependent upon each other.
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not true.... since we have federalism a separation of powers, the states all have an Infrastructure in place to keep order.... along with a tax system.
 
Thrilla said:
according to wiki, you got their ranking correct.. but the Netherlands ( ranked 18)GDP is about half of Texas's state GDP(.... wiki puts them between spain and mexico... though these are 2012 rankings.

Cali, if it were to secede, would be ranked 10th..Texas 14th
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I don't care what Wiki claims. Don't believe everything you read.
 
Removable Mind said:
Yes, it does rely - it is an interdependent state.
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much like the colonies were to the crown once upon a time....

this is an academic exercise... no need to get bent out of shape or claim the sky will fall... or that Texas will turn into North Korea.
 
Thrilla said:
much like the colonies were to the crown once upon a time....

this is an academic exercise... no need to get bent out of shape or claim the sky will fall... or that Texas will turn into North Korea.
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Believe as you will...

My reference to North Korea is strictly to point out the cost of the citizens to be under a government that can't support the infrastructure...ain't good.
 
ernst barkmann said:
not true.... since we have federalism a separation of powers, the states all have an Infrastructure in place to keep order.... along with a tax system.
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Uh huh...sure..well, just give it a try to figure out exactly all of the resources necessary for the independent Texas, or any state would need beyond it's own capabilities should it secede. The results would speak for themselves.
 
Removable Mind said:
Uh huh...sure..well, just give it a try to figure out exactly all of the resources necessary for the independent Texas, or any state would need beyond it's own capabilities should it secede. The results would speak for themselves.
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tell me..why you think Texas would just collapse.

do you really think the people of Texas are that weak, and cannot stand on their 2 feet?
 
Thrilla said:
yeah I'm sure Wiki is lying about measureable GDP stats :lamo
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It doesn't matter about the GDP stats. That can change overnight - when enough financial/economic restrictions are imposed on Texas by the US.

Think of it this way. If Texas was the largest producers of Widgets in North America Continent...but one tiny part necessary for the Widgets to function came from a source within the US...guess what could/would happen?
 
Removable Mind said:
Believe as you will...

My reference to North Korea is strictly to point out the cost of the citizens to be under a government that can't support the infrastructure...ain't good.
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it's your opinion that the infrastructure can't be supported... certainly not fact.

as to whether or not they can....well, you are forgetting about the very nature of being a sovereign currency issuer that comes with nationhood....I can speculate that infrastructure could be maintained superior to how it is now and be just as correct as you are.
 
Removable Mind said:
It doesn't matter about the GDP stats. That can change overnight - when enough financial/economic restrictions are imposed on Texas by the US.

Think of it this way. If Texas was the largest producers of Widgets in North America Continent...but one tiny part necessary for the Widgets to function came from a source within the US...guess what could/would happen?
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why do you believe sanctions/restrictions will be inherently levied against Texas?

if Texas becomes a nation, it is assumed it was an amicable split.... if it wasn't amicable, the US would invade and capture Texas and the secession wouldn't be successful in the first place.
 
ernst barkmann said:
tell me..why you think Texas would just collapse.

do you really think the people of Texas are that weak, and cannot stand on their 2 feet?
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Texas cannot support its own military, healthcare system, education system, highway systems, agriculture needs, etc, etc, etc...for any length of time without the types of assistance it gets from the Federal government.
 
Removable Mind said:
As a native Texan for decades...I can assure you that there will never a consensus of Texas citizens that would constitute "the will of the people".

The consequences of leaving the Union would be profound and in the end, be dire. When one makes a serious inventory of what resources would be required to become an independent state/nation - even with all of the natural resources in Texas - they simply aren't enough to deal with all of the social issues, which Texas relies on Federal assistance.

The United States would have Texas on its knees - by imposing sanctions of all types that would, within a relevantly short time, virtually paralyze the Texas government. No state, including Texas is a rich enough in resources or treasure to defy the United States, which "some consider the world's most powerful country". Now that claim is debatable, but still a very significant power.

Call the US a totalitarian government, but the states are interdependent upon each other.
Click to expand...

Unless you have a working crystal ball, then you have no way of knowing what the future holds.
 
Thrilla said:
why do you believe sanctions/restrictions will be inherently levied against Texas?

if Texas becomes a nation, it is assumed it was an amicable split.... if it wasn't amicable, the US would invade and capture Texas and the secession wouldn't be successful in the first place.
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If Texas secedes, it would be done against the will of the Federal government, which would most likely make Texas a "security issue" for the US...among other concerns.
 
DA60 said:
Unless you have a working crystal ball, then you have no way of knowing what the future holds.
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Don't need a crystal ball. The Federal government has made its position known in Texas vs White. If Texas secedes - it will do so against the will of the United States of Amerca's standing government.

There would be consequences imposed. It doesn't take a genie or crystal ball to figure that out.
 
Removable Mind said:
Texas cannot support its own military, healthcare system, education system, highway systems, agriculture needs, etc, etc, etc...for any length of time without the types of assistance it gets from the Federal government.
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you seem to be forgetting, the state of Texas would no longer send money to the federal government.
 
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