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Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon


  • Total voters
    133
That does seem to be the official line for the last 150 years. That official line of course aligns the US with the most repressive regimes in the world (although only on this specific issue of national self-determination).

No, actually it fits right in with the majority of countries, which would not allow pieces of their country to simply break into an independent country on their own at random. Especially not pieces that were not acquired by force or coercion, but simply agreed to be part of the country.
 
No, actually it fits right in with the majority of countries, which would not allow pieces of their country to simply break into an independent country on their own at random. Especially not pieces that were not acquired by force or coercion, but simply agreed to be part of the country.

This is the traditional theory that the integrity of a State's borders are more important than minor concepts such as freedom, self-determination and democracy.
 
This is the traditional theory that the integrity of a State's borders are more important than minor concepts such as freedom, self-determination and democracy.

not sure you can protect democracy by letting people leave the country every time they don't like how the vote goes
 
not sure you can protect democracy by letting people leave the country every time they don't like how the vote goes

That is not what this is about.
 
This is the traditional theory that the integrity of a State's borders are more important than minor concepts such as freedom, self-determination and democracy.

Texas has all these things. There are a few very vocal groups in Texas who simply whine about not getting what they want during elections, which is hilarious since they do a lot of crap in Texas that many people in the other states find absolutely stupid, abhorrent, or just shake their heads over. This tells me that they have plenty of self determination and those whining otherwise are more like little kids or teenagers with a mindset that if they didn't have their parents around, their lives would be so much better.
 
Texas has all these things. There are a few very vocal groups in Texas who simply whine about not getting what they want during elections, which is hilarious since they do a lot of crap in Texas that many people in the other states find absolutely stupid, abhorrent, or just shake their heads over. This tells me that they have plenty of self determination and those whining otherwise are more like little kids or teenagers with a mindset that if they didn't have their parents around, their lives would be so much better.

That is not what this thread is about. Your contention is that if tomorrow the vast majority of the inhabitants of Texas wante to turn Texas into an independent country the US should simply prevent this, if necessary by militarily suppressing this. I disagree.
This is a principal discussion. Not a discussion about the current state of affairs or public opinion in Texas.
 
SCOTUS couldnt have said it any better years ago.

They joined the perpetual Union, outside of revolution, they cannot UNILATERALLY secede.
 
SCOTUS couldnt have said it any better years ago.

They joined the perpetual Union, outside of revolution, they cannot UNILATERALLY secede.

That is indeed the official US line. Once you join the Union you sign away your democratic right to self-determination.

Of course, nothing human is "perpetual".
 
That is not what this thread is about. Your contention is that if tomorrow the vast majority of the inhabitants of Texas wante to turn Texas into an independent country the US should simply prevent this, if necessary by militarily suppressing this. I disagree.
This is a principal discussion. Not a discussion about the current state of affairs or public opinion in Texas.

No, they cannot leave. Doesn't matter if they do end up with a "vast majority of Texas" wishing to do so.
 
No, they cannot leave. Doesn't matter if they do end up with a "vast majority of Texas" wishing to do so.

Yes, that is my point. In your reasoning and in official US domestic policy the territorial integrity of the US trumps democracy, freedom and self-determination. I personally don't agree with that extreme Statist philosophy. But everybody is entitled to their opinion.
 
There is no Constitutional mechanism for secession so for Texas or any state to leave it's via a Constitutional amendment or a successful rebellion. Neither is happening in the foreseeable future.
 
There is no Constitutional mechanism for secession so for Texas or any state to leave it's via a Constitutional amendment or a successful rebellion. Neither is happening in the foreseeable future.

Rebellion is indeed the normal way a new country comes into being. It's how the US came into existence too.
 
I voted "yes" but the stipulation would be that they could not rejoin, then secede, then rejoin, then secede, then rejoin...

If they wanted to leave, fine. Make it a 50 year minimum choice.
The price for rejoining the rest of us would have to be pretty damn steep too.
 
I voted "yes" but the stipulation would be that they could not rejoin, then secede, then rejoin, then secede, then rejoin...

If they wanted to leave, fine. Make it a 50 year minimum choice.
The price for rejoining the rest of us would have to be pretty damn steep too.

Obviously independence can't be a revolving door.
 
Sure. No region should be held captive in a nation it doesn't want to belong to, especially if it has a historical status of having once been independent, or is a separate culture from the main body of the nation.
 
That is indeed the official US line. Once you join the Union you sign away your democratic right to self-determination.

Of course, nothing human is "perpetual".

Like I said, unless if the other states give consent or Texas can successfully revolt against the United States (doubt it) then it will not secede.

You're right to an extent in regards to perpetuity. Things have the ability to not be perpetual if action is taken but in the absence of action, some things are indeed perpetual if only legally.
 
Sure. No region should be held captive in a nation it doesn't want to belong to, especially if it has a historical status of having once been independent, or is a separate culture from the main body of the nation.

Should have thought about it before joining the USA.
 
I don't see what you would want to do about it. It would rather stupid of them from today's perspective. But hey! They're Texans.

Not really that stupid of an idea, Texas has a balanced budget, and just about every natural resource a nation could be blessed with.
 
Not really that stupid of an idea, Texas has a balanced budget, and just about every natural resource a nation could be blessed with.

If Texas were to become independent it would have to assume its part of the Federal debt and service that debt at probably substantially higher intrest rates.
 
It is entirely unthinkable any time in the foreseeable future. Just is not going to happen. A handful of loud nutters is not nearly enough to bring it about.

I have seen some polls that put it at about 60/40 for or against. Unless you've lived here, you wouldn't really get it.

Texans are an independent bunch. We think of ourselves as Texans first. We have s proud history. We fought our own war of independence against the Mexicans in 1835, the only U.S. Territory that can say that.

Texas is not just "any other state," and it's entirely within the realm of possibility that we go our own way in the future
 
I kinda have to agree here. People should be able to decide for themselves how they will be governed.

The question is, would it require overwhelming support from the rest of the country, too? I'm not certain either way. Fortunately, it's not going to be an issue either way.

It would not, just would require the will of the people of Texas
 
Oh Dear Lord no.

We'd be conquered by Mexico within the first month. You have to remember that all of the US Armed Forces in our state would be moving out.
 
Oh Dear Lord no.

We'd be conquered by Mexico within the first month. You have to remember that all of the US Armed Forces in our state would be moving out.

Your faith in the military prowess of the Mexican armed forces is touching but mildly irrealistic.
 
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