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Knowledge or wealth

Knowledge or wealth


  • Total voters
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Classic example of the desires of some that everyone be equally poor. Either that or this is merely what financially insecure and/or impulsive people say to themselves to rationalize their financial situation or try to find happiness in spite of it.

An example of frog philosophy. There was a big frog who inhabited a well. One smaller frog had by chance gone to the Pacific ocean. When he informed the big fog at the well about the unimaginable size of the Pacific ocean, the ignorant big frog could not believe it. He began to inflate himself saying, "Is it twice as big as my well?" The little frog responded, "No it is much bigger than that." The frog then inflated himself some more and said, "it is four times as big as my my well?" The little frog said, "no, you don't understand, it's an ocean." The big frog then attempted to inflate himself some more, but then he burst. We should not be frog philosophers.
 
Because that is a personal trait (as well as a personal 'state.') and I am not, nor do I desire to be. I am an avid reader and always looking for new things, new places, new experiences, new information. I am certainly not ignorant in the general sense, altho of course in areas.

Being an avid reader and looking for new things are merely states as well and actually have nothing to do with the self.
 
Being an avid reader and looking for new things are merely states as well and actually have nothing to do with the self.

You are welcome to your opinion.
 
An example of frog philosophy. There was a big frog who inhabited a well. One smaller frog had by chance gone to the Pacific ocean. When he informed the big fog at the well about the unimaginable size of the Pacific ocean, the ignorant big frog could not believe it. He began to inflate himself saying, "Is it twice as big as my well?" The little frog responded, "No it is much bigger than that." The frog then inflated himself some more and said, "it is four times as big as my my well?" The little frog said, "no, you don't understand, it's an ocean." The big frog then attempted to inflate himself some more, but then he burst. We should not be frog philosophers.

Wow, my outlook is forever changed.

My desire to build wealth is based on the following:
1) My desire to provide my son every opportunity I can
2) My desire to not rely on the goodwill (or political motivations) of others to meet my own basic needs
3) My desire to cease to need income (I do not enjoy needing someone else's willingness to employ me on a perpetual basis)

If I build enough wealth, these desires will be realized, and I will be happy about them.

You can preach and pontificate all you want about not needing wealth, or that until I don't desire to build wealth I do not know some sort of "truth" out there, but if my son needs medical care, wants to go to college, if I get fired and can't find another job, if the economy collapses, I will be thanking myself for saving/investing some of my income to build wealth. Compared to that basic security and well-being for my family, all the preaching in the world about seeing some greater truth in being poor will be lost on me.

To be honest, my ultimate goal in life is to retire to a modest 20-acre farm somewhere. But you know what I need to be able to achieve that goal? Wealth.
 
You are welcome to your opinion.

There was a time when you could not read, and that is a condition that you may experience again before the end of your brief lifetime here. However, sentience remains constant throughout these states.
 
My desire to build wealth is based on the following:
1) My desire to provide my son every opportunity I can
2) My desire to not rely on the goodwill (or political motivations) of others to meet my own basic needs
3) My desire to cease to need income (I do not enjoy needing someone else's willingness to employ me on a perpetual basis)

If I build enough wealth, these desires will be realized, and I will be happy about them.

That you believe this will cause you to be happy is your illusion. There have been many people who have attained these things and you have found that they do not give any type of substantial satisfaction. It is just like the condition of a man who is being waterboarded. When he is placed in a condition where that is no longer happening he may feel some relief from that type of suffering, but that relief he feels is not substantial happiness. Similarly, for a person who is experiencing suffering due to lack of wealth and the subsequent inability to fulfill some of his mundane desires, having wealth may give him some relief from that type of suffering, but still he will find that he experiences other types of suffering, and that relief from that type of suffering is not a substantial type of happiness.
 
Nonsensical question. If you have knowledge, then you can make wealth.

You can make wealth, doesn't mean you will. I know a ****ton of useless information about Australian reptiles, but I'm pretty broke.
 
You can make wealth, doesn't mean you will. I know a ****ton of useless information about Australian reptiles, but I'm pretty broke.

I knew a homeless guy who used to be a marine biologist.
 
An example of frog philosophy. There was a big frog who inhabited a well. One smaller frog had by chance gone to the Pacific ocean. When he informed the big fog at the well about the unimaginable size of the Pacific ocean, the ignorant big frog could not believe it. He began to inflate himself saying, "Is it twice as big as my well?" The little frog responded, "No it is much bigger than that." The frog then inflated himself some more and said, "it is four times as big as my my well?" The little frog said, "no, you don't understand, it's an ocean." The big frog then attempted to inflate himself some more, but then he burst. We should not be frog philosophers.

I want to be ignorant but understand the truth.
 
People who claim so tend to be ridiculously stupid.

Your statement will be rendered ridiculously stupid in due course of time. I guarantee it.
 
Ok. Well, I guess I didn't read them with the depth that you intended.

No problem ocean. Actually I thought about you for a while yesterday when I was at work. I am pulling for you. I really wish you well in your spiritual endeavors. I'm very serious when I say that.
 
The point is that wealth cannot make one happy.

I am sure that since he did not go to jail and he got treatment for his addiction he is a very happy man.
 
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Can I join ya? No?

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I am sure that since he did not go to jail and he got treatment for his addiction he is a very happy man.

Like I said to someone else, a person who has been subjected to waterboarding my feel some relief when such conditions are removed. However, that relief cannot be said to be substantial happiness. It is merely relief from a particular type of suffering. The person will be subjected to unpleasant conditions in other ways.
 
No problem ocean. Actually I thought about you for a while yesterday when I was at work. I am pulling for you. I really wish you well in your spiritual endeavors. I'm very serious when I say that.

Bless you.
 
Like I said to someone else, a person who has been subjected to waterboarding my feel some relief when such conditions are removed. However, that relief cannot be said to be substantial happiness. It is merely relief from a particular type of suffering. The person will be subjected to unpleasant conditions in other ways.

Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.
 
Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.

Aside from basic necessities, money doesn't make anyone happy or fulfilled, it just pacifies the wants, offers some artificial gratification. What we want and want we need isn't the same. Society tells us what we think we need, and unless we dig deep down to find out what really brings joy, no thing, no amount of money, no toy, no change, can ever fill that void.
 
Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.

The point jamesrage is that regardless of whether one is wealthy or not, he will experience various types of mundane happiness and distress. However, such experiences are transient and therefore the wise have concluded that they are illusory in nature. What is constant through these types of experiences is the phenomenon of sentience itself. The is because the soul, the atma is of the nature of a superior, transcendental spiritual potency that has come from the Supreme atma, the Paramatma, or God. The mundane, material energy is also an energy of God, but it is of an inferior nature and produces various types of illusory, mundane experiences for those who prefer those types of experiences. However, thoughtful and intelligent persons come to understand that these types of experiences do not give satisfaction, and therefore they turn their attention towards the substantial happiness that can be obtained through activity that is supported by the superior, transcendental, spiritual energy of God. These experiences are eternal in nature, like the atma, and it is there that real substantial happiness is to be found.
 
Of course, we need a good definition of terms .. that all can agree to .. which is all but impossible ..
IMO, "ignorant" means uneducated, more so than simply stupid ..
"Knowing the truth" , in whose opinion ? .. this is so open, we have been here on this orb for 6,000 years and are not even close to knowing the truth ..
The old adage "a fool and his money are soon parted" is so very true .
 
"Knowing the truth" , in whose opinion ?

As such questions have been exhaustively examined, I would suggest an excellent place to start are the Vedanta Sutras of the great sage Vyasa. For example the first verse says

athato brahma jijnasa

This translates into English as

Now is the time to inquire about the Absolute Truth

So here at the very beginning Vyasa makes it clear what he means to discuss. There are so many forms of life, and they are all associated with a various types of intelligence. However, the human form of life is very special in that it has been endowed with the type of intelligence that makes such inquires possible. Dogs and cats do not have such discussions. But a human being should ask questions like who am I, where have I come from, and what is the purpose of life. Indeed this is what distinguishes the human species from other animals. The Absolute Truth is denoted in this passage by the Sanskrit term Brahman.

Now various Vedic scholars have commented on the Vedanta Sutras, but the great Ramanuja in his commentary on this verse has stated

The word 'Brahman' denotes the hightest Person (purushottama), who is essentially free from all imperfections and possesses numberless classes of auspicious qualities of unsurpassable excellence. The term 'Brahman' is applied to any things which possess the quality of greatness (brihattva, from the root 'brih'); but primarily denotes that which possesses greatness, of essential nature as well as of qualities, in unlimited fullness; and such is only the Lord of all. Hence the word 'Brahman' primarily denotes him alone, and in a secondary derivative sense only those things which possess some small part of the Lord's qualities; for it would be improper to assume several meanings for the word (so that it would denote primarily or directly more than one thing). The case is analogous to that of the term 'bhagavat 1.' The Lord only is enquired into, for the sake of immortality, by all those who are afflicted with the triad of pain. Hence the Lord of all is that Brahman which, according to the Sûtra, constitutes the object of enquiry.

Here Srila Ramanuja Acharya makes it very clear, that Brahman refers to the Supreme Person, or God, who is free from imperfection and possesses the all knowledge, all wealth, all fame, all beauty, all power, and all renunciation.

The second verse goes

janmady asya yatah

Translated into English

That from which everything is coming

The word "janmadi" means the origin, "asya" means everything, and "yatah" means from which. So having established in the first verse the object of inquiry, Vyasa states that the Absolute Truth, Brahman, the Supreme Person, God is that from whom everything is coming.

Again to quote the great Ramanuja

The expression 'the origin', &c., means 'creation, subsistence, and reabsorption'. The 'this' (in 'of this') denotes this entire world with its manifold wonderful arrangements, not to be fathomed by thought, and comprising within itself the aggregate of living souls from Brahmâ down to blades of grass, all of which experience the fruits (of their former actions) in definite places and at definite times. 'That from which,' i.e. that highest Person who is the ruler of all; whose nature is antagonistic to all evil; whose purposes come true; who possesses infinite auspicious qualities, such as knowledge, blessedness, and so on; who is omniscient, omnipotent, supremely merciful; from whom the creation, subsistence, and reabsorption of this world proceed--he is Brahman: such is the meaning of the Sûtra.

So that's a start.
 
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