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Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
Van Basten said:
No.

We don't hold memorial days for traitors to the republic.



I'm surprised you carried on with him for that long, should have saved your breath.
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The South had a legal right to secede. The civil war was an illegal act of aggression perpetrated against the Southern states who acted within their constitutional rights by seceding.

So inasmuch as southerners are traitors, northerners are usurpers whose disdain for the constitutional law of the land shattered the previously long-held precedent of states rights of self-determination
 
Peter Grimm said:
Yes

The South had a constitutional and legal right to secede. The Civil War was an illegal act perpetrated upon the South by Lincoln and his troops.

The subsequent federalization of our republic has been equally illegal and unjust, and it continues to this day
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You are leaving out why the South seceded from the union. It's kind of an important detail you know. They seceded to protect the south's "state rights" to own and enslave an entire race of people. That is what the Civil War was ultimately about.
 
d0gbreath said:
So, the date in various southern states varies from Jan. to Jun.

Does anyone else wonder why it can't be observed on the last Monday in May? You know; Memorial Day. That's the day of observance for all American Soldiers who died in battle. The Union Army soldiers are observed then. Why not observe the bravery and courage of those that gave all to the Confederate Army side on that same day? It makes total sense to me.
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So we should have memorial day for Tories?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
You are leaving out why the South seceded from the union. It's kind of an important detail you know. They seceded to protect the south's "state rights" to own and enslave an entire race of people. That is what the Civil War was ultimately about.
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The Civil War was no more legally justifiable than the war to take out Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Both cases were examples of an aggressive act against another country.

Just because the South was annexed, whereas we never annexed Iraq, doesn't mean the legal basis changes.

Ultimately, do we have a right to dictate our morality to others, by way of our military, or is it up to each nation to determine for themselves what is right and wrong?
 
Let's say that Texas passes an amendment to their state constitution that legalized pedophilia. The federal courts would step in of course and invalidate the amendment. In response let's say the state of Texas secedes from the United States to preserve their "state right" to legalized pedophilia. After Texas gets its ass kicked and is brought back into the United States should there be memorials to those that fought for Texas against the United States?

Seriously that is the moral equivalency here. Seceding from the union to preserve the institution of slavery is the moral equivalent of seceding from the union to preserve child rape. I mean what kind of people then come back and argue "well its their constitutional right to secede..."
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Let's say that Texas passes an amendment to their state constitution that legalized pedophilia. The federal courts would step in of course and invalidate the amendment. In response let's say the state of Texas secedes from the United States to preserve their "state right" to legalized pedophilia. After Texas gets its ass kicked and is brought back into the United States should there be memorials to those that fought for Texas against the United States?

Seriously that is the moral equivalency here. Seceding from the union to preserve the institution of slavery is the moral equivalent of seceding from the union to preserve child rape. I mean what kind of people then come back and argue "well its their constitutional right to secede..."
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Your argument fails on the grounds that Texas would win that war and send you running back home with your tails between your legs.

Don't mess with Texas
 
I don't give a damn what holidays states have...... if they want to honor their dead, fine by me.

as for the argument of "..but they weren't Americans" ..that's pretty silly.
the Union never recognized the CSA.. it considered all states and their inhabitants to be American citizens.
 
Thrilla said:
I don't give a damn what holidays states have...... if they want to honor their dead, fine by me.

as for the argument of "..but they weren't Americans" ..that's pretty silly.
the Union never recognized the CSA.. it considered all states and their inhabitants to be American citizens.
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when the south left the union, the federal government claimed THERE WAS NO LEGAL SECESSION..

when the war was over the north stated the south seceded.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Let's say that Texas passes an amendment to their state constitution that legalized pedophilia. The federal courts would step in of course and invalidate the amendment. In response let's say the state of Texas secedes from the United States to preserve their "state right" to legalized pedophilia. After Texas gets its ass kicked and is brought back into the United States should there be memorials to those that fought for Texas against the United States?

Seriously that is the moral equivalency here. Seceding from the union to preserve the institution of slavery is the moral equivalent of seceding from the union to preserve child rape. I mean what kind of people then come back and argue "well its their constitutional right to secede..."
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pedophilia isn't illegal anywhere in the USA...

...and pedophilia does not equate to child rape.

just sayin'...


the problem with your argument is that secession maybe sought for various reasons.... one need not agree with or support the reason it's sought while simultaneously supporting secession itself.
for example, one can be totally against slavery, and still support the southern states seceding.... inversely, one could have supported slavery, while not supporting the right for the southern states to secede.
it's worthy to mention that even before Southerners started calling for secession.... the big voices calling for secession came from the abolitionist movement itself.

anther example is the New England federalist threatening secession over the Louisiana purchase... does opposing succession inherently means one opposes Louisiana?

in any event, it's not wise to conflate the mechanism of disunion with the reasoning behind it as if they are insepearable
 
I don't consider Wikipedia the best source but since it's already been cited a couple times in this thread...

The holiday, which is observed every year on the last Monday of May, was formerly known as Decoration Day and originated after the American Civil War to commemorate the Union and Confederate soldiers who died in the war.
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(emphasis mine)

Memorial Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Call it hypocrisy but I have no problem honoring someone who made the ultimate sacrifice for their cause, regardless whether I support that cause.
 
If some people want to celebrate it, fine. If they want to use their state taxes to do so? Better. The federal government of the United States of America should not give a single dollar to celebrate a holiday for a people who didn't want to be part of it. We don't give money to the Japanese so they can celebrate their fallen soldiers, do we?
 
Hatuey said:
If some people want to celebrate it, fine. If they want to use their state taxes to do so? Better. The federal government of the United States of America should not give a single dollar to celebrate a holiday for a people who didn't want to be part of it. We don't give money to the Japanese so they can celebrate their fallen soldiers, do we?
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do we spend any federal dollars for the holiday as it stands now?

personally, I would have little problem spending some dollars for confederate soldiers memorials or what have you. it was a pivotal event in US History, many people were killed, it was the deadliest war involving americans, and many people in the US today have direct ancestors who fought for one or both sides.

Historically, Dixie is just as significant as Battle Hymm of the Republic....
 
EMNofSeattle said:
do we spend any federal dollars for the holiday as it stands now?
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I couldn't tell you. I simply posted a requisite for them celebrating it. They have to ensure that not a single federal dollar is used for that purpose. It's pretty cut and dry.

personally, I would have little problem spending some dollars for confederate soldiers memorials or what have you. it was a pivotal event in US History, many people were killed, it was the deadliest war involving americans, and many people in the US today have direct ancestors who fought for one or both sides.

Historically, Dixie is just as significant as Battle Hymm of the Republic....
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That's great. WWII was a pivotal moment for the US. We don't go around creating federally funded holidays for Nazis. Do we?
 
Hatuey said:
I couldn't tell you. I simply posted a requisite for them celebrating it. They have to ensure that not a single federal dollar is used for that purpose. It's pretty cut and dry.



That's great. WWII was a pivotal moment for the US. We don't go around creating federally funded holidays for Nazis. Do we?
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there is no federally funded holiday for confederates to the best of my knowledge.

well no they were germans, not Americans. it wasn't an internal conflict.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I was born and raised in the South. I love the South. I love southern culture. I love southern food. I think we have the best accents. I know we have the best authors. My home state of Arkansas is easily one of the most beautiful states in the nation.

That all said, I think its ridiculous to honor the confederacy in any way. The south seceded for one reason: The right of southern states to have slavery. Slavery, one of the most evil institutions man has ever conceived of, is what the south fought for. Why in the hell should that be honored in any way? We don't honor Nazi Germany or the soldiers that fought for it. There ought not be any memorials to the former of empire of Japan. Hell I have a great, great, great grandfather that has a confederate monument dedicated to him in Tennessee. That is wrong. Regardless of any honor he had in the field of battle, he fought for an evil cause. As southerners we just need to admit that we were in the wrong during the Civil War.
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Slavery was legal in several union states as well, so is it wrong to have memorials to union soldiers? or soldiers of the American Revolution? or the War of 1812 since we had slavery as a nation in those conflicts?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
there is no federally funded holiday for confederates to the best of my knowledge.
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Good. There shouldn't be either and if states want to have a celebration for that? That's fine. With strict scrutiny over whose dollars are going towards that. :)

well no they were germans, not Americans. it wasn't an internal conflict.
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In practice, the South put in place a new government, and saw itself as a separate political entity from the US. So what we're left with is: it was an internal conflict as far as the North was concerned, but the South existed and saw itself as a separate entity. They didn't see their soldiers or their people as being part of the United States of America. Why should anyone else? No, EMN. There is absolutely no reason to celebrate them.
 
Hatuey said:
Good. There shouldn't be either and if states want to have a celebration for that? That's fine. With strict scrutiny over whose dollars are going towards that. :)



In practice, the South put in place a new government, and saw itself as a separate political entity from the US. So what we're left with is: it was an internal conflict as far as the North was concerned, but the South existed and saw itself as a separate entity. They didn't see their soldiers or their people as being part of the United States of America. Why should anyone else? No, EMN. There is absolutely no reason to celebrate them.
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and the North won, ergo internal conflict.

We should memorialize Americans killed in conflict. there is no reason to marginalize over half a million dead and pretend nothing ever happened. honoring killed confederate soldiers is not honoring the political cause. you're probably the same person who would've been spitting on Vietnam veterans 40 years ago with that attitude. it is sometimes appropriate to separate politics from people.

remember, the south was brought back, slavery was abolished, and also we chose not to prosecute people for treason as a result of the war, and allowed each of the states to return.
 
Hatuey said:
Good. There shouldn't be either and if states want to have a celebration for that? That's fine. With strict scrutiny over whose dollars are going towards that. :)



In practice, the South put in place a new government, and saw itself as a separate political entity from the US. So what we're left with is: it was an internal conflict as far as the North was concerned, but the South existed and saw itself as a separate entity. They didn't see their soldiers or their people as being part of the United States of America. Why should anyone else? No, EMN. There is absolutely no reason to celebrate them.
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A lot of confederate soldiers were drafted, and didn't enter the army willingly.
 
Peter Grimm said:
A lot of confederate soldiers were drafted, and didn't enter the army willingly.
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That is true, and there were also a lot who were just poor people who wanted a decent week's wages, and didn't care how they got it.

The American Civil War was a disgustingly bloody conflict. But it was fought for one reason and one reason only -- preservation of slavery. While I recognize the right of southern states to honor their dead from that terrible conflict, I question the reason why, since the south was completely in the wrong on that and, thank whatever deity you want, the north won.
 
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