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Over 75? Sign here if you're ready for death:

Pick the option that best describes your view of this issue below.

  • 75+ or younger chronically ill should be required to DNR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 75+ or younger chronically ill should NOT be required to answer DNR questions - it's insulting

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 75+ or younger chronically ill should consider DNR and assisted suicide to save society cost

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

Ockham

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DailyMailUK said:
  • New NHS guidelines urge GPs to draw up end-of-life plans for over 75s
  • Also applies to younger patients with serious conditions, such as cancer
  • Told to ask if patients wants doctors to resuscitate them if health worsens
  • Medical professionals say it is 'blatantly wrong' and will frighten elderly
Doctors are being told to ask all patients over 75 if they will agree to a 'do not resuscitate' order.
New NHS guidelines urge GPs to draw up end-of-life plans for over-75s, as well as younger patients suffering from cancer, dementia, heart disease or serious lung conditions.

They are also being told to ask whether the patient wants doctors to try to resuscitate them if their health suddenly deteriorates.


The NHS says the guidance will improve patients' end-of-life care, but medical professionals say it is 'blatantly wrong' and will frighten the elderly into thinking they are being 'written off'.
In some surgeries, nurses are cold-calling patients over 75 or with long-term conditions and asking them over the phone if they have 'thought about resuscitation'.

....


In some parts of England, practice nurses have been instructed to cold-call patients and fill out an advance care plan for them over the phone.
Ruth Nicholls, a palliative care nurse in the South East, told how her brother-in-law, who has a heart condition, was contacted immediately after he had a hospital appointment.


GPs to ask elderly if they'll agree to a 'do not resuscitate' order | Daily Mail Online

Is this a bit callous and unfeeling by the NHS to require GP's and medical professionals to do something like, cold call a recent older patient and ask them if they have thought about NOT being resuscitated in the future and just... well.... die.... or is this a good thing to get rid of older people and to be the future of medical services in the future to not only inform but for lack of a better word, "sell" DNR and possibly in the future --- suicide to assist the government in curbing medical expenses?

Take the poll and provide an opinion. Remember - if this is the future, you personally will be at the end of a question or decision like this if you live so long and such a policy catches on in your area/country.
 
Is this a bit callous and unfeeling by the NHS to require GP's and medical professionals to do something like, cold call a recent older patient and ask them if they have thought about NOT being resuscitated in the future and just... well.... die.... or is this a good thing to get rid of older people and to be the future of medical services in the future to not only inform but for lack of a better word, "sell" DNR and possibly in the future --- suicide to assist the government in curbing medical expenses?

Take the poll and provide an opinion. Remember - if this is the future, you personally will be at the end of a question or decision like this if you live so long and such a policy catches on in your area/country.

I have a DNR for certain situations as I plan on being cryopreserved. I think everyone should carefully consider their end of life options. It's irresponsible to leave it to the wind. I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate for patients to asked about their wishes especially if it encourages people to think about this sooner. Though I think they should ask at a younger age so that people aren't "frightened" and ask again ever 5 or so years if they want to update their wishes.
 
Is this a bit callous and unfeeling by the NHS to require GP's and medical professionals to do something like, cold call a recent older patient and ask them if they have thought about NOT being resuscitated in the future and just... well.... die.... or is this a good thing to get rid of older people and to be the future of medical services in the future to not only inform but for lack of a better word, "sell" DNR and possibly in the future --- suicide to assist the government in curbing medical expenses?

Take the poll and provide an opinion. Remember - if this is the future, you personally will be at the end of a question or decision like this if you live so long and such a policy catches on in your area/country.



It seems callous but I wonder if the report is skewed.

We do something similar here, but not to save money. An 89 year old friend took sick and died two years ago and in the process I was with him when the resident explained that extreme measures can do damage, especially in later life, some of them painful and life changing, from broken ribs to brain damage. He was given all that information and allowed to make a choice, "talk it over with your family" etc.

He chose the negative option as he was a pharmacist and knew of what the doctor spoke. Knowing what happens in old age after open heart, and other intrusive procedures I am pretty sure I wouldn't want to live that way.

In the meantime we are still doing hip replacements to any age.
 
I have a DNR for certain situations as I plan on being cryopreserved. I think everyone should carefully consider their end of life options. It's irresponsible to leave it to the wind. I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate for patients to asked about their wishes especially if it encourages people to think about this sooner. Though I think they should ask at a younger age so that people aren't "frightened" and ask again ever 5 or so years if they want to update their wishes.

I tend to agree with this (other then the freeze drying me part when I am gone).

The only thing with the OP article I disagree with is cold calling - that seems a bit much.

Just ask the patients the next time they are in to see their GP.
 
Today is a good day to die.
 
Is this a bit callous and unfeeling by the NHS to require GP's and medical professionals to do something like, cold call a recent older patient and ask them if they have thought about NOT being resuscitated in the future and just... well.... die.... or is this a good thing to get rid of older people and to be the future of medical services in the future to not only inform but for lack of a better word, "sell" DNR and possibly in the future --- suicide to assist the government in curbing medical expenses?

Take the poll and provide an opinion. Remember - if this is the future, you personally will be at the end of a question or decision like this if you live so long and such a policy catches on in your area/country.

You're using the Daily Mail as a source. In real life the guidelines probably say that the doctor should simply ask if they'd like to go over any concerns the patient might have about end of life care should that a bad situation ever arise.

It's a good idea and needs to be done.
 
Nothing wrong with having the discussion and if not with your GP then with who?
 
You're using the Daily Mail as a source. In real life the guidelines probably say that the doctor should simply ask if they'd like to go over any concerns the patient might have about end of life care should that a bad situation ever arise.

It's a good idea and needs to be done.

Even in the OP "urge" morphs into "told"
 
In a society where the government is making the healthcare decisions, I would think this is just the next step to making it mandatory.
 
I think that Medicare should require DNRs under certain circumstances or cease coverage in certain cases when a DNR is not signed.

However, if you want to pay your own freight feel free to live forever.
 
In a society where the government is making the healthcare decisions, I would think this is just the next step to making it mandatory.

Making a DNR mandatory isn't a bad idea. Actually, a DNR can be a legally binding way to keep you alive in almost any circumstance if that's what your wishes are. I wouldn't be against making end-of-life directives mandatory starting at a young age and you can alter it however often you'd like. Saving money isn't really the point and I don't believe that the British government has that in mind (at list first and foremost). Giving people the dignity to die the way they want to is. I will definitely be crippled one day and I'm going to have to decide how long I want to prolong things. Do I want people changing my diapers for 30 years? That's a decision I'm going to have to make, but I don't want anybody else making it for me because they deem me incompetent.
 
I think that Medicare should require DNRs under certain circumstances or cease coverage in certain cases when a DNR is not signed.

However, if you want to pay your own freight feel free to live forever.

Kind of what I was thinking. If you can pay yourself go ahead and have fun.
 
I've no idea what the Daily Mail is talking about to be honest and they, as usual, deliberately avoid helping anyone seek further information on the back of their claims. I'm not aware of any new guidelines but there has been policy in place about this for some time which is always developing. I'm highly suspicious by their complete lack of links or right of reply and I can't find the alleged interview in Nursing Times mentioned in passing. Also, the only other source I found talking about this was the Daily Express which if anything is possible, is even less trustworthy and reliable than the Mail.

I will guarantee that NHS England doesn't require practices to "cold call" patients at all. GP practices are fairly independent in this area (remember the reference is to "guidance" after all) so if there is bad practice here, it's on the practices rather than NHS England. Actual end-of-life planning is a very positive thing for patients if done correctly but if GPs are expected to manage it (and they should be best placed to do so), they need to be suitably resourced because they're already stretched with all the things they're currently required and expected to do.

I'm giving the rest of your post and your poll all the credit they deserve.
 
"Every day is a good day to die?" :roll:

Up until now everyone who has ever been born has eventually died.

Does anyone think that they can beat those odds?

Those aren't so much "odds" as a simple reality.

Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse.
 
Is this a bit callous and unfeeling by the NHS to require GP's and medical professionals to do something like, cold call a recent older patient and ask them if they have thought about NOT being resuscitated in the future and just... well.... die.... or is this a good thing to get rid of older people and to be the future of medical services in the future to not only inform but for lack of a better word, "sell" DNR and possibly in the future --- suicide to assist the government in curbing medical expenses? Take the poll and provide an opinion. Remember - if this is the future, you personally will be at the end of a question or decision like this if you live so long and such a policy catches on in your area/country.
I think the real question to ask is which country will be producing soylent green first: the US or the UK? :mrgreen:
 
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Nobody can be required to have a DNR, no matter how old or sick they are. It is a voluntary thing for people who do not want to be revived when the time comes.

This decision should be purely based on the wishes of the person who wants a DNR status. It should have nothing to do with age, ill health, saving costs, being a burden on society or any other thing people could think of.

A DNR is a purely personal and private decision based on the points of view of that person. A society should never be allowed to dictate to people that they should have a DNR against their wishes or personal beliefs.
 
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