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Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

  • Rural America will win and keep its historical influence in Governance

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Urban America will win and take over Rural Americas influence in Governance

    Votes: 16 84.2%

  • Total voters
    19
My point is that suburban is neither Urban nor Rural. They have escaped the true Urban because the city became less and less of what they wanted from the city.


Now here's where I (and I think most fellow millennials) would 100% disagree with you (and I believe you are actually incorrect factually so on this).


Suburban is point in fact urban. No it doesn't have inner-city clutter (although actually that's not true, I've seen numerous city-esq high business buildings in mass suburbia just as high and big as any downtown, they aren't actually that rare). Suburbia is urban. Suburban residents simply don't want to believe it is. It has all the commercial hubs of a city. In many respects modern suburbia is the city writ large. I think in this sense this is the underlying cultural problem of America. Cities died and became the suburbs. With the death of the city came the idea for 80% of Americans residing in cities proverbial offspring, suburbs, that "Okay we aren't urban we're country people because we no longer live in cities". (Whatever that is). The truth is no they aren't. They're living in cities offspring.


-There's more Starbucks in mass suburbia than there are in most downtown's in America

-There's more fast food in suburbia than in the average city in America


It's simply not true that "Suburbia is somehow rural". It is not. It is completely urban. There are bike paths. There are parks. There are massive hospitals nicer than any you'll find downtown. The idea that suburbia is somehow "Secret Rural America" is totally delusional and frankly is the equivalent of living in a fantasy world. (Which I'd argue probably the average suburban person does live in a pseudo fantasy world. They go to Olive Garden and spend $100+ on family dinner, drive home in their Lexus's and then deem themselves country people all while being 50+ miles away from the nearest rural area.)

Oh my God!!! TREES!!!! We're in the country!!! LoL.. No you aren't. You're 12 minutes from a downtown with millions of people..

1lCTzTA.jpg
 
We've been fighting the urban vs rural battle since the beginning of this country. It's Hamilton vs Jefferson. Urban has been pretty steadily winning the entire time. That's why we have all these nice things.

Like urban blight, air pollution, water pollution, ground pollution, congestion, smaller living space, lack of land ownership, destruction of natrual habitats, high taxes.


Wonderful stuff!
 
If you are in suburbia close to the city, you are more urban, as you go further away, suburbia makes way for rural... simple really/
 
If you are in suburbia close to the city, you are more urban, as you go further away, suburbia makes way for rural... simple really/

No actually that's entirely wrong sir lol.

Suburban has the word urban in it. It doesn't ever equate to "Secret Rural area" just because you want it to. If a place is actually suburban that means it us an urban-esq commercial and economic hub, in other words subURBAN.


Lol see what I mean? We really are fighting basic logic here..
 
As a political junkie this is the only real issue that actually matters as I see it. The emotion-inducing topic of Rural vrs Urban influence in America and who will essentially "win" in the future. I think it's the one issue that all others derive their inherent problems from subtly so.

Future Influence
: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?


For the first time in history, more people worldwide live in cities than outside them. Across the globe, urban areas add more than 60 million new residents every year. In the United States, of course, the rural-to-urban tipping point happened generations ago. Today, nearly 80 percent of Americans live in metropolitan areas). But it’s a demographic shift that’s ongoing.
It’s the age of urban ascendance. But it’s also an age of urban/rural discord. In an ever-flatter world, big cities often identify more with urban counterparts halfway across the globe than they do with rural leaders just down the road. Chicago woos jobs from Shanghai, but may not coordinate with small towns in downstate Illinois. Boston aligns itself more with Berlin and Beijing than with the Berkshires.There’s always been a gulf between rural and urban America. But that rift is widening -- in politics, in funding, in economic mobility, on social issues. How government leaders respond to that rift can either help bridge the gap between cities and rural areas, or drive the country down an even more divergent and potentially debilitating path.
America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series


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There really are two Americas. An urban one and a rural one. - The Washington Post
Red State, Blue City: How the Urban-Rural Divide Is Splitting America - The Atlantic
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/12/rural-decline-congress/1827407/

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This reminds me of someone's avatar which shows an electoral map. Rural was red, urban areas blue. Apparently the belief being that Romney should be President because he won more real estate or something.
 
No actually that's entirely wrong sir lol.

Suburban has the word urban in it. It doesn't ever equate to "Secret Rural area" just because you want it to. If a place is actually suburban that means it us an urban-esq commercial and economic hub, in other words subURBAN.


Lol see what I mean? We really are fighting basic logic here..



Really? so saddle river, nj is urban as is lower manhattan.


The prefix "sub-"

a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin ( subject; subtract; subvert; subsidy); on this model, freely attached to elements of any origin and used with the meaning “under,” “below,” “beneath” ( subalpine; substratum), “slightly,” “imperfectly,” “nearly” ( subcolumnar; subtropical), “secondary,” “subordinate” ( subcommittee; subplot).



so, lets think about that, "suburban"....



saddle river, bernards twp, sussex nj.

are they all "urban"?
 
Really? so saddle river, nj is urban as is lower manhattan.


The prefix "sub-"

a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin ( subject; subtract; subvert; subsidy); on this model, freely attached to elements of any origin and used with the meaning “under,” “below,” “beneath” ( subalpine; substratum), “slightly,” “imperfectly,” “nearly” ( subcolumnar; subtropical), “secondary,” “subordinate” ( subcommittee; subplot).



so, lets think about that, "suburban"....



saddle river, bernards twp, sussex nj.

are they all "urban"?



If you truly think this picture is "Rural in any way shape or form" then no amount of logic is going to help I'm sorry to say.

Yes absolutely it is suburban. To say anything else is 100% wrong sir.

SVMyfXx.jpg
 
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Now here's where I (and I think most fellow millennials) would 100% disagree with you (and I believe you are actually incorrect factually so on this).


Suburban is point in fact urban. No it doesn't have inner-city clutter (although actually that's not true, I've seen numerous city-esq high business buildings in mass suburbia just as high and big as any downtown, they aren't actually that rare). Suburbia is urban. Suburban residents simply don't want to believe it is. It has all the commercial hubs of a city. In many respects modern suburbia is the city writ large. I think in this sense this is the underlying cultural problem of America. Cities died and became the suburbs. With the death of the city came the idea for 80% of Americans residing in cities proverbial offspring, suburbs, that "Okay we aren't urban we're country people because we no longer live in cities". (Whatever that is). The truth is no they aren't. They're living in cities offspring.


-There's more Starbucks in mass suburbia than there are in most downtown's in America


-There's more fast food in suburbia than in the average city in America


It's simply not true that "Suburbia is somehow rural". It is not. It is completely urban. There are bike paths. There are parks. There are massive hospitals nicer than any you'll find downtown. The idea that suburbia is somehow "Secret Rural America" is totally delusional and frankly is the equivalent of living in a fantasy world. (Which I'd argue probably the average suburban person does live in a pseudo fantasy world. They go to Olive Garden and spend $100+ on family dinner, drive home in their Lexus's and then deem themselves country people all while being 50+ miles away from the nearest rural area.)

Oh my God!!! TREES!!!! We're in the country!!! LoL.. No you aren't. You're 12 minutes from a downtown with millions of people..

1lCTzTA.jpg

You are saying a lot, but you really aren't saying much. A lot of vague opinions. I have no idea what your basis for your assertion are because I don't know what city you are near. I've already said I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I'm about an hour on a good day from Center City Philadelphia and while I'm closer to a mall bigger than any mall in any US city, it is still very much suburban (still more than 30 minutes from Philadelphia).

While you are trying to assert that the suburbs are more urban because they have urban in it, I have asserted that there really are 3 separate groups: Rural, Suburban and Urban.

I'm reminded of an old joke: There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who divide things into two categories and those who don't. You are in the former.
 
If you truly think this picture is "Rural in any way shape or form" then no amount of logic is going to help I'm sorry to say.

Yes absolutely it is suburban. To say anything else is 100% wrong sir.

SVMyfXx.jpg

Just saw this. This picture is Urban. In the suburbs, people don't park on the street, they have driveways.
 
The only reason any political power is in the rural areas is that is where the richer urbanites move to get out of the urban nightmare. The urban environment almost always carries the bulk of the political power because they have far more people, crammed in like sardines. California is a great example. The rural communities up north hated the Central Valley Water project and fought against it. The urban communities down south had all the political power and thus it went through easily.
 
Like urban blight,

As opposed to destroyed rural areas?

air pollution, water pollution, ground pollution,

Not even a little bit confined to urban areas. In fact, there's probably more pollution in the remote rural areas where they build polluting factories than in cities where all the people live.

congestion, smaller living space, lack of land ownership,

While this bothers you, to many of us the density of cities is a feature, not a bug.

destruction of natrual habitats,

Finally, a valid point. However, plenty of habitats are destroyed in the clearing for forests for agriculture, or the diverting of rivers. This is a problem, but like the pollution, hardly contained to urban areas.

high taxes.

And higher incomes and a much higher standard of living to make up for it.

None of this, of course, has anything to do with my assertion that urban ideas, wealth, culture, and innovation are what drive this country. The thread is about influence. The influence that defines who and what we are as Americans doesn't come from rural living. It comes from the cities. It always has. This has been true since the first city that humans built.
 
Just saw this. This picture is Urban. In the suburbs, people don't park on the street, they have driveways.



Your misgivings seem to be with the fact that suburban America actually means quasi-urban America (and it is). You simply don't like that fact (and I get that, I just don't agree with you on your firm belief that suburbia isn't quasi urban).



Suburbia is quasi urban that's why it's called suburbia. You know it is. To try and argue that, as you and others are, "Suburbia is really just some distant, long lost rural power base with deep ties to rural America" is such a blatant falsehood not only historically but culturally and economically speaking that I can't just sit here and agree with you for niceties sake. The truth must be upheld amongst the fantasies.

Okay so here's some suburban area with "driveways". Still to argue this is some "Long Lost Rural Enclave with deep rural ties" is pure lunacy. It's quasi urbanity.

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There may be a generational swing to the urban environments, given the proclivity of sub-40 something's flocking to those areas at a greater-than-normal rate.

Then again, those influences tend to ebb and flow, especially as families are coming to the forefront of their attention.
 
Your misgivings seem to be with the fact that suburban America actually means quasi-urban America (and it is). You simply don't like that fact (and I get that, I just don't agree with you on your firm belief that suburbia isn't quasi urban).



Suburbia is quasi urban that's why it's called suburbia. You know it is. To try and argue that, as you and others are, "Suburbia is really just some distant, long lost rural power base with deep ties to rural America" is such a blatant falsehood not only historically but culturally and economically speaking that I can't just sit here and agree with you for niceties sake. The truth must be upheld amongst the fantasies.

Okay so here's some suburban area with "driveways". Still to argue this is some "Long Lost Rural Enclave with deep rural ties" is pure lunacy. It's quasi urbanity.

c7mMxHL.jpg

AQyb7Fo.jpg

ssWgWTE.jpg

As I said, there are two kinds of people in the world. They have separate descriptions and I believe that they are distinct. Why don't you get that and what is your obsession about only having 2 categories?
 
As I said, there are two kinds of people in the world. They have separate descriptions and I believe that they are distinct. Why don't you get that and what is your obsession about only having 2 categories?


You can attempt to muddy the fact that you don't like that suburbia is an urban culture and place and not a rural one all you like. That doesn't make it true.







Rural culture and people are less than 21% of America. You trying to claim that suburbia has some "Deep intrinsic connectivity to Rural America" is inherently intellectually dishonest.
 
well, I hope the rural folks win.. simply because urban people aren't likely to respect the rural folks way of life or more importantly...their interests.


in any event, i don't like the question posed... i don't think it's healthy to think in terms of winners and losers ... there's already enough division in the country, there's no need to search out more.
 
well, I hope the rural folks win.. simply because urban people aren't likely to respect the rural folks way of life or more importantly...their interests.


in any event, i don't like the question posed... i don't think it's healthy to think in terms of winners and losers ... there's already enough division in the country, there's no need to search out more.

I'm a fan of rural with technological penetration, personally. Netflix and Amazon Prime in a small city or town, kind of measurement, you know?

None of the pretentiousness, crime, and busy streets of urban areas, but with the perks of contemporary Internet infrastructure.
 
You can attempt to muddy the fact that you don't like that suburbia is an urban culture and place and not a rural one all you like. That doesn't make it true.







Rural culture and people are less than 21% of America. You trying to claim that suburbia has some "Deep intrinsic connectivity to Rural America" is inherently intellectually dishonest.

Dishonesty is attributing a quote or opinion that I never made. I get it, you have your axe to grind and I'll leave you to yourself to beat your opinion to death.
 
Not to nitpick... but when did rural areas have control over governance? I mean, our DOI was signed in Philly. Same as our Constitution. The only 'control over governance' rural areas have ever had could probably be said to be during feudalism and even that is a bit of a stretch. I have nothing against rural folk (real rural folk, not people like myself who just own a house in the middle of nowhere) but the last time they were governing anything were the early days of civilization. I think it's safe to say that the overwhelming majority of the last 5,000 years of recorded human history have been governed from cities and urban settings.

Again, nothing against the rural folk, but there really is no discussion about who governs. Name the world's top empires, they were all governed from cities. Even the Mongols eventually settled down in cities and started ruling from them. Name the 20th century's major powers. All were governed from cities. When exactly did the rural population 'govern' the rest of a state or nation?
 
well, I hope the rural folks win.. simply because urban people aren't likely to respect the rural folks way of life or more importantly...their interests.


in any event, i don't like the question posed... i don't think it's healthy to think in terms of winners and losers ... there's already enough division in the country, there's no need to search out more.



This is basically the fundamental issue of the thread though and I have to say you are overall attacking 80% of America.






What about Urban or SUBURBAN peoples right to be "Respected" and have their way of life "Respected"? What about my interests as a member of the majority of this country who has to listen to some insidious wanna-be rural politician lecture me about my values while I and people like me pay for the streets to be paved, pay for the public funds said supposed "Rural Values Hero" uses to attack the majority of Americans values and way of life on a daily basis so some suburban mom or dad 5 miles from downtown can sit in their bunko lounger with a smile on their face believing they're "Rural people under attack" (They're not)?


-What about the 80% of Urban Americans right to be respected?

-What about 80% of Urban Americans right to their way of life?

-Why do I have to cater to a 20% minority of Americans and hear how "Bad" 80% of Americans are on a daily if not second by second basis?

-Why do we 80% of Americans have to sit and hear our values attacked by people who listen to Fake Country Music that isn't country music?




George Strait hated country music and didn't listen to it in his youth by his own admission. He listened to rock. George Strait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Strait began his musical interest while attending Pearsall High School, where he played in a rock and roll garage band. The Beatles were popular when Strait was in high school. "The Beatles were big", Strait confirmed. "I listened to them a lot and that whole bunch of groups that were popular then". Strait did not tune to the country music radio often as a youth, usually listening to the news and the farmer's report.
 
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As opposed to destroyed rural areas?


yes, as I have no idea what you are talking about.


Not even a little bit confined to urban areas. In fact, there's probably more pollution in the remote rural areas where they build polluting factories than in cities where all the people live.


/facepalm



While this bothers you, to many of us the density of cities is a feature, not a bug.

really? I like getting home at a reasonable time to see my family. If you like crowds, hey, you are so cosmo man! /facepalm


Finally, a valid point. However, plenty of habitats are destroyed in the clearing for forests for agriculture, or the diverting of rivers. This is a problem, but like the pollution, hardly contained to urban areas.

/facepalm

And higher incomes and a much higher standard of living to make up for it.

are you kidding me? I guarantee you my "Standard of living" is much higher than anyone in the city. I have land, space, square footage, ammenities, et al.

I don't have a 4 million dollar 1400 sq foot apartment in midtown. /facepalm take a double.


None of this, of course, has anything to do with my assertion that urban ideas, wealth, culture, and innovation are what drive this country. The thread is about influence. The influence that defines who and what we are as Americans doesn't come from rural living. It comes from the cities. It always has. This has been true since the first city that humans built.


lol, so the cities can survive if there was no rural?
 
lol, so the cities can survive if there was no rural?

Well, we own the land that you farm. And in the next fifty or sixty years, most if not all farming will be done by robots... so yeah, probably. Plus we can afford to import all the food we need from South America. No, a weird mythical revolt of rural people would not starve the city dwellers.

But that is not not has it ever been my point. My point is about the OP's question. It's about influence. Our culture, our politics, our innovation, our ideas... pretty much everything that makes us Americans... that comes from cities. Influence comes from cities. Even the ideas that drive rural people, including, as I said, the high rollers and the politicians that lead the right wing parties, come from the cities.
 
Well, we own the land that you farm. And in the next fifty or sixty years, most if not all farming will be done by robots... so yeah, probably. Plus we can afford to import all the food we need from South America. No, a weird mythical revolt of rural people would not starve the city dwellers.

The **** you talking about? Most people in the city rent.


But that is not not has it ever been my point. My point is about the OP's question. It's about influence. Our culture, our politics, our innovation, our ideas... pretty much everything that makes us Americans... that comes from cities. Influence comes from cities. Even the ideas that drive rural people, including, as I said, the high rollers and the politicians that lead the right wing parties, come from the cities.


Not really, but everyone's America is different I guess.
 
The **** you talking about? Most people in the city rent.

Almost all farmland is owned by massive agricultural corporations. Big corporations are very much an urban idea. The owners and operators of those big corporations are almost all urban people, educated in urban universities, raised on urban ideas.

Not really, but everyone's America is different I guess.

No it's not. But you can be in denial if you like. The majority of movies are made by urban people about other urban people. The majority of music (even country music) is made by urban people. Technology is made in urban labs and universities. The computers and software that we're using to have this conversation was created and popularized in urban centers. The bible that you quote in your signature was developed and popularized in urban centers. Even the heavily edited and politicized versions of the bible specifically made for rural Americans were developed and created in urban centers (the New International Version that is the text most bible thumpers quote was designed and developed in New York City and it is a heavily political document tailor made so that you will thump it).

Most of American culture, even rural American culture comes from urban centers. Now, I don't actually think that it's a contest. Despite everything I've said in this thread, I don't really care where culture comes from or where ideas come from. I just want the best ideas. That they come from urban centers is why I like urban centers and why I live in them. I would never presume that it is the other way around.
 
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