Will you vote for Hillary as our next President? [W:302]

EdwinWillers said:

Ok, regale us then with all the options Democrats have put forth to solve the "it costs too much" argument such that they can be for voter ID laws.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

The party itself? Or likely voters?

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

The Party

What "high ground" does the Democrat party hold w/r to the cost of people being able to acquire an ID?

Click to expand...

sKiTzo said:

So, you think that not meddling in the affairs and conflicts of the middle east and focusing only on national defense rather than a contrived offense program translates into isolationism? What's the insane rhetoric? He advocates peaceful world trade, building strong ties universally and defending our borders. To simply refrain from being the world agitator and creating war out of phony pretense (again and again and again) is not isolationism (and certainly not insane).

Whether we like it or not, how some of the conflicts in the middle east turns out affects US national security. If Iran gets nukes....that will definitely affect our national security. We cannot just cover the US is a protective bubble or force field and not worry about anyone else. As for some of Ron Paul's insane rhetoric........one example is: "They attacked us on 9/11/01 because we invaded their country.

Of course they're not nation building. I was being facetious using that term because that's the guise they go under when they invade countries under false pretense. They "liberated" Iraq. They "liberated" the Libyans.
Libya is a prime example that american and european news is not just censored, but designed and fabricated to deceive us into supporting the atrocities that are being committed.

Click to expand...

I am not going to argue with you over whether it was or was not a good idea to get involved in particular conflicts. My point is that if we do get involved, the objective should be clear. We should defeat the enemy and stick around long enough to make sure the government we leave behind is viable. And if necessary, we should assist them in rebuilding their infrastructure. We should not leave a power vacuum behind.

There were no homeless in Libya because their "insane dictator" built homes for his people because in Libya, housing is a right of the people. Under this insane dictator, energy was free to Libyans - there was no power bill every month. Education was free (including college). Medical was free. If you wanted to study abroad or needed a medical treatment that wasn't available there, the Libyan government paid for it. Loans were at 0% interest by law. If you wanted to be a farmer you were given a plot of land, farming equipment, seeds, and whatever you needed. If you bought a car, the Libyan government covered 50% of the cost.

Click to expand...

However the dictator could also send troops or police to your front door and imprison or kill you for something as simple as "rhetoric against the state".

You can really see that these people needed to be liberated from this insane dictatorship. If you were wondering how the Libyan government could manage such exorbitant support of it's people, it's because Libya has one of the largest oil reserves and it was a nation truly for the people and shared its wealth among the people. Also, they didn't have a Rothschild central bank. They issued their own debt-free money. After Gaddafi was brutally lynched and the Libyan people were "liberated", the first thing that happened was a Rothschild central bank was installed.

It is now known that when they said Gaddafi was "bombing his own people", the russians, who were monitoring from space, said the evidence shows that NO SUCH THING HAS OCCURED. Does this give you an idea of the level of deception being perpetrated by the establishment using the media as their most important and successful tool?

Click to expand...

And you trust the country that has printed propaganda in decades in a state run news organization known as "Pravda" to tell you the truth?

We have bigger problems than to worry about giving money that we don't have to other countries. If we are "cutoff" by a country because we didn't have any free money for them, there's no loss there anyway.

The problem we have in america is such that it has become a world problem. It's a problem that has gone rogue (if you know what I mean). It involves much more than just having a new president. Lobbyists for special interest groups who buy favors from our representatives in congress are our biggest enemies, hence, we have congress "sleeping with the enemy". The other major problem are the people themselves, who, like you said, are way too content being distracted. It's an ignorance they will regret woefully, but won't have to until they are physically unable to be distracted anymore when problems are manifest in and around the space they occupy. In other words, when it's too late.

Click to expand...

There is a big corruption issue in American politics. However the biggest single issue that motivates it is not lobbyists. Lobbyists are going to lobby. The problem is entrenched power in the US Congress. And it will continue at the current level until a constitutional amendment is passed enacting congressional term limits.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

Well, again, then the issue isn't the voter ID law, is it? The issue is whatever the difficulty may be, for whomever, or however few people there be that are having [whatever] difficulties obtaining an ID.

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

This makes it sound like one has to travel across the country in a stretch limo to get an ID card.

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

Well, we make accommodations for far, far greater financial difficulties in every other aspect of life, why not for something as simple as an ID? I mean goodness - what's a new ID cost anyway? $10? $15? $20? And what the heck does metro bus fare cost? $1.50? $2.50? And how often does one need to renew a license? Every other year? 5 years? I'm up to 10 years before I have to renew now.

Do you realize, particularly in context, just how ridiculous that ["it's too costly"] argument sounds?

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

I find it very interesting that those who clamor so hard and loud for government largesse in virtually every other area of the lives of the lower end of the economic scale - be it homes, cars/transportation, clothing, cell phones, taxes, food, healthcare... you name it - that those same people can't see a way... nay REFUSE TO EVEN CONSIDER ALTERNATIVES to something which, economically speaking, is but a mere fraction of the cost virtually every other accommodation they've fought for.

Frankly, that alone casts a very dark shadow on the true motive behind the refusal to require voters to show a valid ID to vote.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

What does one have to do with the other? Stay on topic, please

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

The party itself? Or likely voters?

The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

Dem-leaning people have offered numerous compromises, mostly involving increasing access to said ID.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

The party itself? Or likely voters?

The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

Dem-leaning people have offered numerous compromises, mostly involving increasing access to said ID.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.

Click to expand...

EdwinWillers said:

Ok, regale us then with all the options Democrats have put forth to solve the "it costs too much" argument such that they can be for voter ID laws.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.

Click to expand...

ObamacareFail said:

They cannot afford a drivers license or state ID card????????

Click to expand...

Fearandloathing said:

Seems to me the Amerikan liberal camp says that about every problem.

Benghazi was a non existent problem and now there is an ISIS stronghold Iraq was a non existent problem and now there is war. Hillary's lying and cheating have been a non existent problem and now she's under investigation. Health care premiums were a non existent problem and then people really did lose their plans.

So, anymore, when I hear a cool aid swilling liberal say it is a "non-existent" problem, I figure it's reached crisis stage

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

Some cannot. Why do you continue to deny this.

Click to expand...

Any mandatory voter ID should be free. Charging money for a document that is a requirement to vote constitutes a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.

Click to expand...

ObamacareFail said:

Because it is an outright bald faced lie invented by the democrat party. Short of a hermit living in a cave or a homeless person living in a cardboard box, there is no American citizen that cannot afford the cost of obtaining a drivers license or state ID Card and renewing it every two to seven years. And once again, the vast majority of minorities and elderly already have such an ID. You are selling them short.

Click to expand...

Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. At the same time, voter ID policies are far more costly to implement than many assume. Instead, Improvements in voting technology and modernization of our voter registration system will both increase efficiency and close the door on mistakes and fraud.

Click to expand...

ObamacareFail said:

It's also mandatory to have a drivers license to drive a car......and we are charged for driver's licenses. And most banks will not cash checks without a valid Photo ID. I'll say it again, Kobie. Unless they live the existence of a complete hermit, they already have either a driver's license, or a state ID card. It's a phony issue. Shame on the democrat party!

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

Driving cars and cashing checks are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

Number two, if cost and access is no impediment, then why is this?

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/voter-id

Click to expand...

Born Free said:

The Brennan Center is totally against anyone needing an ID to vote. Their stats are dead wrong.

"Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. At the same time, voter ID policies are far more costly to implement than many assume. Instead, Improvements in voting technology and modernization of our voter registration system will both increase efficiency and close the door on mistakes and fraud."

One out of 11 people of voting age do not have an ID. And it's higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters and students. That would mean that up to 15 % of the voting age people are totally off the grid of being a US Citizen.

Because they cannot:

Get a Job
Your employers will need you to show proof of identity before you start working.
Cash a Check
You need a photo ID to cash a personal or payroll check.
Open a Bank Account
Most banks ask for your Social Security number and a government-issued ID.
Get an Apartment
A photo ID is required to sign a lease.
Apply for College
Colleges ask for Social Security numbers, and may ask for photo ID.
Travel on an Airplane
Adult passengers have to show government-issued ID to board a flight.
Receive Public Benefits such as Health Insurance
To be eligible for some public benefits you need to prove your identity, age and residence.
Enter Government Buildings for Meetings and Appointments
You need photo ID to enter some government facilities.
Get a Library Card
You need to prove your identity and your residence to get a library card.
Get Discounts at Museums and Theme Parks
If you can prove that you’re under a certain age, you can get deals on museum and theme park admissions.
Gym Membership
Some gyms require official photo ID to sign up to be a membership

ID= - Why Do I Need an ID?

Now I ask you off these people that are completely off the grid as a citizen of the US, VOTE? They don't have a job, they can't fly, they can't cash a check or open a bank account, etc etc etc yet they WANT TO VOTE.

This is all liberal nonsense.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

Do you have any actual evidence that their stats are "dead wrong"?

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

I never once said the vast majority of anybody didn't have an ID. Strawman number one.

Click to expand...

Driving cars and cashing checks are not constitutional rights. Voting is.

Click to expand...

ObamacareFail said:

Number two, if cost and access is no impediment, then why is this?

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/voter-id

Nice try, Kobie, however you chose to post a link to a liberal and very biased anti-Voter ID group funded by George Soros.

Washington, D.C. - A new report from the National Center for Public Policy Research finds the Brennan Center for Justice - one of the country's loudest opponents of voter integrity measures - to have a history of bias-driven research.

The report also discloses that the Brennan Center has received millions in funding from George Soros.

The report is the latest entry in the National Center's GroupSnoop.org series.

"The Brennan Center is on a mission to undermine support for voter integrity measures, claiming that state-level voter ID provisions will disfranchise millions of voters and that voter fraud rarely occurs. However, some of its major reports concerning voter ID measures and voter fraud are wrought with bias and have been refuted by election scholars," said National Center General Counsel Justin Danhof.

The profile shows that the Brennan Center has a history of cherry-picking data that aligns with pre-determined conclusions that voter integrity measures, such as requiring a photo ID to vote, are actually efforts to disfranchise specific voting blocs. The Brennan Center appears to ignore or severely downplay data that are inconvenient for its theses.

Report Exposes Brennan Center for Justice's Biased Reporting and Liberal Funding

Click to expand...

However the 11% figure is still bogus. I have never had a copy of my own birth certificate in my life, and I have still managed to obtain a drivers license in three different states. A social security number has always been enough. And there is not a legal US citizen that cannot easily obtain a social security number.

Click to expand...

Born Free said:

Read my post and answer the question I asked, I repeat

Now I ask you of these people that are completely off the grid as a citizen of the US, VOTE? They don't have a job, they can't fly, they can't cash a check or open a bank account, etc etc etc yet they WANT TO VOTE.

Click to expand...

Kobie said:

Soros! Everybody drink!

Wow, two conservative think tanks (read: professional bull**** artists) don't like the Brennan Center. Oh, rats.



If it's bogus, provide alternate data, not your personal anecdote.

Click to expand...