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Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay [W:150]

Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay People?

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Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

No business should be allowed to discriminate against anyone in any protected class. The only exception would be those defined as a specifically religious non-profit and even there, they should only be allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion. The idea that hate is a religious value is idiotic.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Cephus said:
No business should be allowed to discriminate against anyone in any protected class. The only exception would be those defined as a specifically religious non-profit and even there, they should only be allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion. The idea that hate is a religious value is idiotic.
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It's not hate. Those bakeries and pizzerias never refused to serve someone because they were gay. But forcing someone to approve or participate in a lifestyle they disapprove of is going against THEIR first amendment rights of freedom of religion.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

JFish123 said:
It's not hate. Those bakeries and pizzerias never refused to serve someone because they were gay. But forcing someone to approve or participate in a lifestyle they disapprove of is going against THEIR first amendment rights of freedom of religion.
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They're not participating in a lifestyle, they're baking a cake or making a pizza. Nobody is forcing them to engage in a gay orgy. They are doing what they are in business to do. Try again.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Why does the religion of the owner matter?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

The Mark said:
Why does the religion of the owner matter?
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It shouldn't mean a thing. It's the religious that insist that it does.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay ...

ReverendHellh0und said:
i'm only quoting what she said.
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What she said in the second interview, not the very first one that kicked off this whole firestorm. And she was actually led toward that "catering" comment in that second interview. In the first one, her words described a gay person/couple coming into the pizzeria and ordering pizza for a same sex wedding. She didn't say "cater" at all in that one. She said "provide".

http://news.yahoo.com/video/yelp-reviewers-rip-indiana-pizza-181131690.html

And her father confirmed that a) they never catered any actual event before and b) they could not "condone", which she said was provide pizza for, gay weddings. So the only way they could do that, since they don't actually do catering where they show up at a place with pizzas and other food and serve it, is by what I described, a gay couple or someone else came up to their counter and said they wanted to order pizzas for a wedding between two people of the same sex.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Yes...ANY privately-owned business that offers a non-life saving product or service should be able to refuse service to anyone they wish, for any reason.

The idea that the state can force a (say clothing) shop owner to serve people against the latter's will is ridiculous.

And why on Earth would someone want to go to a store for a non-life saving product or service knowing that store owner does not want to serve them for some ridiculous prejudice?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

DA60 said:
Yes...ANY privately-owned business that offers a non-life saving product or service should be able to refuse service to anyone they wish, for any reason.

The idea that the state can force a (say clothing) shop owner to serve people against the latter's will is ridiculous.

And why on Earth would someone want to go to a store for a non-life saving product or service knowing that store owner does not want to serve them for some ridiculous prejudice?
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Say it's the only store for 100 miles around, and you don't have the funds for a long trip.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

The Mark said:
Say it's the only store for 100 miles around, and you don't have the funds for a long trip.
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With respect, if it's not life and death...tough.

No ones going to drop dead because they cannot by an extra pair of jeans or that 'really cute t-shirt'.

Besides, if they want it so bad, just mail order from Amazon or Walmart or someone else. That's how I buy most of the stuff I purchase (outside of food/drink/gasoline) as it is.


If the point is to force prejudiced shop owners out of business, what will force them out of business faster then if everyone knows they are prejudiced? Who is going to shop at a store that everyone knows will not sell to women or 'blacks'? Hardly anyone and so the business will be forced to change or go under.

But if you force some racist pig by law to sell to 'blacks' say...he will probably resent it more, blame Obama/other 'blacks' and just go underground...knowing he has to keep his pathetic hatred quiet.

Now me, I would FAR rather know my neighbour was racist then not know.
 
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Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

DA60 said:
With respect, if it's not life and death...tough.

No ones going to drop dead because they cannot by an extra pair of jeans or that 'really cute t-shirt'.

Besides, if they want it so bad, just mail order from Amazon or Walmart or someone else. That's how I buy most of the stuff I purchase (outside of food/drink/gasoline) as it is.


If the point is to force prejudiced shop owners out of business, what will force them out of business faster then if everyone knows they are prejudiced? Who is going to shop at a store that everyone knows will not sell to women or 'blacks'? Hardly anyone and so the business will be forced to change or go under.

But if you force some racist pig by law to sell to 'blacks' say...he will probably resent it more, blame Obama/other 'blacks' and just go underground...knowing he has to keep his pathetic hatred quiet.

Now me, I would FAR rather know my neighbour was racist then not know.
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The pizzeria that announced they wouldn't be catering to gay weddings made one million from their community. We're those the sort of consequences you were referring to?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

DA60 said:
With respect, if it's not life and death...tough.

No ones going to drop dead because they cannot by an extra pair of jeans or that 'really cute t-shirt'.

Besides, if they want it so bad, just mail order from Amazon or Walmart or someone else. That's how I buy most of the stuff I purchase (outside of food/drink/gasoline) as it is.


If the point is to force prejudiced shop owners out of business, what will force them out of business faster then if everyone knows they are prejudiced? Who is going to shop at a store that everyone knows will not sell to women or 'blacks'? Hardly anyone and so the business will be forced to change or go under.

But if you force some racist pig by law to sell to 'blacks' say...he will probably resent it more, blame Obama/other 'blacks' and just go underground...knowing he has to keep his pathetic hatred quiet.

Now me, I would FAR rather know my neighbour was racist then not know.
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But someone could miss out on an important job opportunity because they were denied a suit, shoes, tie, dress, etc, making their life harder solely because of unfair discrimination.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

What's the difference between a gay customer from other customers?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

DiAnna said:
Are you kidding? People are terrified every Muslim they see is at the airport, train station, on the bus, etc., to blow the damned place up! Every time a synagog is egged, cops head for the nearest mosque, which may have already been painted with pig blood. Hell, it wasn't that many years ago that good, god-fearing folk were threatening to blow up a mosque that was supposedly too close to the 9/11 site.

And you say Muslims aren't in the cross hairs and have nothing to fear? Really?

*mind officially boggled*
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Of course I'm not kidding. Perhaps you could try to provide a comment based on the context of the question, as opposed to running off on some meme from the central office.

It has been documented there are Muslim businesses who refuse to provide services to LGBT couples. Where is your outrage?

Perhaps the boggled minds of the ProgLib has kept such outrage under wraps, or it's the wrong religion to denigrate. One or the other is true.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

ocean515 said:
Of course I'm not kidding. Perhaps you could try to provide a comment based on the context of the question, as opposed to running off on some meme from the central office.

It has been documented there are Muslim businesses who refuse to provide services to LGBT couples. Where is your outrage?

Perhaps the boggled minds of the ProgLib has kept such outrage under wraps, or it's the wrong religion to denigrate. One or the other is true.
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Where is the official documentation of Muslim businesses that have legitimately refused LGBT couples? I'm all for refusing to do business with them, if there is a legitimate complaint of their refusal (hint, that rightwing idiot who tried to set people up is not "official documentation). (Seriously, I want to know so that I can avoid them if in those areas.)
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Redress said:
Above quoted to catch your attention. Hey X Factor, can you bother to please answer the question I asked that you ducked? Here, let me quote it...
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Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?

This expresses an answer to your question well. I hope you'll take the time to read the entire article and be as objective as I know you can be. In fact, I think it's the best article written on this matter of a double-standard regarding Islam. I think you need to really look at it, and see why many of us Christians (who btw do not condone any violence done under the Christian banner) are upset that in THIS DAY AND AGE with information available everywhere for everyone.....that a double standard is allowed in the name of fear and diversity.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

American said:
Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?

This expresses an answer to your question well. I hope you'll take the time to read the entire article and be as objective as I know you can be. In fact, I think it's the best article written on this matter of a double-standard regarding Islam. I think you need to really look at it, and see why many of us Christians (who btw do not condone any violence done under the Christian banner) are upset that in THIS DAY AND AGE with information available everywhere for everyone.....that a double standard is allowed in the name of fear and diversity.
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It is an editorial and it does not answer my question in the least.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Redress said:
It is an editorial and it does not answer my question in the least.
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Then speak English. :lol:
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

Nope. No business should be allowed to.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay [W:1

A lot of the left, liberals, democrats are afraid and some are just cowards. They can't even say "Islamic" extremism for crying out loud. There total Politically Correct. After all words can hurt...
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If Christuans were cutting peoples heads off for decades you can bet they'd call them Christian. Smell that? Smells like hypocrisy
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay [W:1

I would like my own state's public accommodations law not to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual preference, or, for that matter, on the basis of several other characteristics not covered by federal public accommodations law. I don't presume to tell the people of any other state whether they should prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual preference in their public accommodations laws. That is entirely up to the majority in each state to decide--nothing in the Constitution prohibits private persons from discriminating in that way.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay [W:1

X Factor said:
Self explanatory. This is a consistency check for all sides. Does changing up the religion itself change anything?
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Nope

Muslims do not get a pass on anti-discrimination laws.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

roguenuke said:
Where is the official documentation of Muslim businesses that have legitimately refused LGBT couples? I'm all for refusing to do business with them, if there is a legitimate complaint of their refusal (hint, that rightwing idiot who tried to set people up is not "official documentation). (Seriously, I want to know so that I can avoid them if in those areas.)
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Translation: I reject your reality and replace it with my own.

So, did the right wing idiot doctor the videos? If you think so, prove you case.

Given the death penalty for LGBT's many Muslim believers and countries appear to actually support, why do you think activists avoid trying to set them up on video they same way they do professed Christian business owners?

Doesn't the fact they don't at least raise an eyebrow?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

ocean515 said:
Translation: I reject your reality and replace it with my own.

So, did the right wing idiot doctor the videos? If you think so, prove you case.

Given the death penalty for LGBT's many Muslim believers and countries appear to actually support, why do you think activists avoid trying to set them up on video they same way they do professed Christian business owners?

Doesn't the fact they don't at least raise an eyebrow?
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Yes, actually he did, since we only see certain scenes from the videos. In some parts, we have no idea what specific kind of cake he asked for that they were saying no to. In others, we hear them saying yes up to the point where he asks for certain things on the cake. We also have no clue what the names of any of these places are, what sort of cakes they normally agree to do, or any other important information. We never see an entire interaction, from beginning to end with the bakers. It is also a setup from the beginning, so it automatically can have people refusing just for recognizing him, rather than refusing because they will refuse a cake for a same sex wedding. He specifically made the cake different than most wedding cakes. He didn't simply ask for a wedding cake that would be for a same sex wedding, increasing the odds that it would and could actually legally be refused due to content rather than his (presumed) sexuality.
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

roguenuke said:
Yes, actually he did, since we only see certain scenes from the videos. In some parts, we have no idea what specific kind of cake he asked for that they were saying no to. In others, we hear them saying yes up to the point where he asks for certain things on the cake. We also have no clue what the names of any of these places are, what sort of cakes they normally agree to do, or any other important information. We never see an entire interaction, from beginning to end with the bakers. It is also a setup from the beginning, so it automatically can have people refusing just for recognizing him, rather than refusing because they will refuse a cake for a same sex wedding. He specifically made the cake different than most wedding cakes. He didn't simply ask for a wedding cake that would be for a same sex wedding, increasing the odds that it would and could actually legally be refused due to content rather than his (presumed) sexuality.
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That's not proof, that opinion.

Since you've dismissed an obvious case of discrimination, what about the other point?

It's very clear there are followers of the Muslim faith who agree with policies that call for the killing of LGBT people. Why are activists ignoring this fact, and not seeking to set up Muslim business owners the same way the are doing with Christian business owners?
 
Re: Should a Muslim Owned Business Be Legally Permitted to Refuse Service to Gay Peop

ocean515 said:
That's not proof, that opinion.

Since you've dismissed an obvious case of discrimination, what about the other point?

It's very clear there are followers of the Muslim faith who agree with policies that call for the killing of LGBT people. Why are activists ignoring this fact, and not seeking to set up Muslim business owners the same way the are doing with Christian business owners?
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We aren't ignoring that fact at all. It is despicable and wrong. However it is also happening in other countries and there is not much we can do about it that isn't already being done. There is something we can do about discrimination businesses here in the US participate in.

Which case involving same sex couples reporting/suing businesses that denied them was a setup?
 
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