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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

brothern said:
Those that opposing here are saying that the sex chromosomes and biological sex assigned at birth are what a person's sex is.
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I am pretty sure what most are saying is genotype.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
Sure. Explain to me how, however, that therefore in order to fully enjoy living my dream I have the right to your stuff is a defensible position?
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What stuff of yours is being taken? Answer: None. And please don't come back with the whole "its my tax money". Because quite frankly that doesn't fly. There are a million and one things that taxes goes towards and I can guarantee you that you wouldn't agree to tax money going to every single one of those things. Taxes being used for things we don't agree with happens every single second of every single day.

cpwill said:
Feel free to point out "paying for anyone's sex change operation" among the few and defined powers of Congress
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The same area that allows the government to provide medical welfare for poor people. You know, in the form of Medicaid, Medicare, etc etc etc.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
The bathroom issue is dependent (imo) on where they currently are as far as surgery is concerned. Pre-Op, I would say you are with your birth. Post-Op (assuming bottom), I would say you end up with people whose genitals are closest to yours.



It's a simplified way to put the issue, but the basic point is, no waving penises in front of 7 year old girls, regardless of your opinion of it.
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What exactly is it that people consider is going on in women's restrooms? The only time I've ever been in the bathroom and saw someone's vagina or had someone see mine was/is when we have urinalysis and either I'm donating or observing. It is called "stall doors". They work really well. And no one, male or female should be looking under them, trying to sneak a peek. What is the difference between men trying to sneak a peek and women trying to sneak a peek?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Threads like these sure do demonstrate how Social Conservatives are Authoritarians in the truest since of the world. They take an issue that personally bothers them yet has no impact at all on their life of their family's life, but since it personally bothers them, they wan't their personal beliefs codified into law.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
So you were a baby at birth. Should we still treat you like a baby?
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I was a baby boy. Not a girl.

Babies don't stay babies, but boys grow up to be men. Boys do not grow up to be women. Not ever.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
I'm sorry. I don't understand your point. Please explain.
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Okaaaaay.... *puts on her 1st grade teacher hat*

When humans are born, we're little people called "babies". We are biologically wired to grow into toddlers, adolescents, teenagers and then adults. We are no longer babies because we have gotten taller, our brains have developed to full potential and we can take care of ourselves. It's normal to change from a baby to an adult.

When we're in our mama's belly, we were assigned a gender. Our gender can never change because we cannot change our sex chromosomes no matter how we change our outward appearance.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
What exactly is it that people consider is going on in women's restrooms? The only time I've ever been in the bathroom and saw someone's vagina or had someone see mine was/is when we have urinalysis and either I'm donating or observing. It is called "stall doors". They work really well. And no one, male or female should be looking under them, trying to sneak a peek. What is the difference between men trying to sneak a peek and women trying to sneak a peek?
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:shrug: I was generally conflating the "bathroom" and "shower room" and "locker room" issues.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

brothern said:
As MildSteel just said, it's a whole lot more complicated.
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But it's not. We cannot change our gender because we cannot change our sex chromosomes. A man cannot completely change into a woman or vice versa. It's impossible. It's only complicated to people who want it to be different. It cannot be different.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
An XX man or an XY women are not trangenders. XX men and XY women are people that suffer from a genetic disease. Your improper classification was ignored for a reason.
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Except very few people actually have seen theirs or anyone else's sex chromosomes. Not even a DNA test is common.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

SouthernDemocrat said:
Threads like these sure do demonstrate how Social Conservatives are Authoritarians in the truest since of the world. They take an issue that personally bothers them yet has no impact at all on their life of their family's life, but since it personally bothers them, they wan't their personal beliefs codified into law.
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Ah yes. Whereas Liberals, of course, are not trying to codify anything into law whatsoever. :roll:


You have to decide, for legal purposes, one way or the other. Attempting to blame that fact on one side or the other in order to wax poetic with rhetoric maybe sounds good in your head, but reads poorly to anyone willing to apply logic.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
Except very few people actually have seen theirs or anyone else's sex chromosomes. Not even a DNA test is common.
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...... how does that impact it? Relative lack of knowledge does not change physical reality.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I was a baby boy. Not a girl.

Babies don't stay babies, but boys grow up to be men. Boys do not grow up to be women. Not ever.
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All human fetuses begin development as females, and that includes you Bob. The Y-chromosome interrupts that process several weeks in with the direction of androgens. The breast tissue begins forming before the Y-chromosome kicks into gear, which is why you have nipples to feed your offspring, Bob.

Also gives explanation as to why there is so much variation in biological sex. The development of primary and secondary sex characteristics isn't a straight and narrow path from Point A to B. There's a ton of contingencies.

Josie said:
But it's not. We cannot change our gender because we cannot change our sex chromosomes. A man cannot completely change into a woman or vice versa. It's impossible. It's only complicated to people who want it to be different. It cannot be different.
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^ See above.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

brothern said:
You're the one arguing that a guy that looks like a guy, sounds like a guy and acts like a guy should be legally considered a female. Because ... actually, wait, what was your argument again?
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Because they are female. Tell me, why do you insist on ignoring the fact they are female?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
...... how does that impact it? Relative lack of knowledge does not change physical reality.
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You don't know what their chromosomes actually are. They could be any number of things. They could have both, as many people do.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

brothern said:
All human fetuses begin development as females, and that includes you Bob. The Y-chromosome interrupts that process several weeks in with the direction of androgens. The breast tissue begins forming before the Y-chromosome kicks into gear, which is why you have nipples to feed your offspring, Bob.

Also gives explanation as to why there is so much variation in biological sex. The development of primary and secondary sex characteristics isn't a straight and narrow path from Point A to B. There's a ton of contingencies.


^ See above.
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That doesn't debunk her argument. All you are talking about is human development in the above paragraphs. The Y chromosome and it's genetic importance still exists regardless of your argument.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

BrewerBob said:
Sure. It is no skin off my nose.
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Though I suppose it would be possible to utilize the skin from your nose to complete the transformative processes of genitalia.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
You don't know what their chromosomes actually are.
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:shrug: then if there is a worry that perhaps they do not reflect the phenotype, they can be easily checked. We already take blood samples from newborns to test for a whole host of things - it seems that would be a pretty easy one to run.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
Except very few people actually have seen theirs or anyone else's sex chromosomes. Not even a DNA test is common.
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Do you think you're an XX woman? What is the chances of that?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
:shrug: then if there is a worry that perhaps they do not reflect the phenotype, they can be easily checked. We already take blood samples from newborns to test for a whole host of things - it seems that would be a pretty easy one to run.
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It isn't. In fact, DNA tests are very extensive. And not all parts of a person's body necessarily contain the same DNA.

I had my DNA tested twice to check for a blood disease my family has. They screwed up and checked for the more common deficiency, so had to do the test again.
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Do you think you're an XX woman? What is the chances of that?
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Pretty good. But there are actually pretty good odds that I also have some XY chromosomes inside my body as well, especially since I've given birth to two sons.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

shlunka said:
Though I suppose it would be possible to utilize the skin from your nose to complete the transformative processes of genitalia.
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As soon as I hit enter on that post I knew I was going to get a response somewhere along those lines.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That doesn't debunk her argument. All you are talking about is human development in the above paragraphs. The Y chromosome and it's genetic importance still exists regardless of your argument.
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Humans are one of the least sexual dimorphic species we know. Think of mallards or elephant seals, as a comparison. Almost all of our differences are between reproductive features, and even those shows how males and females are resultant from the same starting point. (The link is to the wikipedia table of homologues sexual organs. No pictures, only one medical-looking drawing near the end of the page.)

How we develop and our phenotype ends up impacting our bodies a whole lot more than what our genes are the reference guides to. Ignoring the two sex chromosomes -- You may have a particular gene, but will it always be expressed? No, not unless it's entirely dominant.

Also, the Y-chromosome?

“Functional wasteland,” “Nonrecombining desert,” and “Gene-poor chromosome” are only some examples of the different definitions given to the Y chromosome in the last decade. In comparison to the other chromosomes, the Y is poor in genes, being more than 50% of its sequence composed of repeated elements. Moreover, the Y genes are in continuous decay probably due to the lack of recombination of this chromosome. But the human Y chromosome, at the same time, plays a central role in human biology. The presence or absence of this chromosome determines gonadal sex. Thus, mammalian embryos with a Y chromosome develop testes, while those without it develop ovaries (Polani [1]). What is responsible for the male phenotype is the testis-determining SRY gene (Sinclair [2]) which remains the most distinguishing characteristic of this chromosome.

The human Y chromosome: the biological role of a “Functional wasteland”
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
It isn't. In fact, DNA tests are very extensive. And not all parts of a person's body necessarily contain the same DNA.

I had my DNA tested twice to check for a blood disease my family has. They screwed up and checked for the more common deficiency, so had to do the test again.
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And did the two tests come back with different gender results?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
And did the two tests come back with different gender results?
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The Dutch sprinter Foekje Dillema was expelled from the 1950 national team after she refused a mandatory sex test in July 1950; later investigations revealed a Y-chromosome in her body cells, and the analysis showed that she probably was a 46,XX/46,XY mosaic female.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
Pretty good. But there are actually pretty good odds that I also have some XY chromosomes inside my body as well, especially since I've given birth to two sons.
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Yes, everyone does. Is that the argument you want to go with?
 
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