View Poll Results: Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

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  • Yes

    77 47.53%
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    63 38.89%
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    11 6.79%
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Thread: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

  1. #861
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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Dressing rooms, bathrooms, etc. aren't really a legal matter as much as the policy of a business though.
    Huh. So, there are no public facilities, or publicly available facilities in publicly-owed buildings?


    regardless, it's only a matter of time before dudes with their tallywackers cut off, or false breasts, or wearing a dress, start suing private establishments for not letting them access the women's facilities. It will become legal fairly quickly at that point - and I guarantee that at that point both you and roguenuke who liked this post will be arguing that yes, in fact, it is a legal matter and should not be left up to the individual business policy.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Huh. So, there are no public facilities, or publicly available facilities in publicly-owed buildings?


    regardless, it's only a matter of time before dudes with their tallywackers cut off, or false breasts, or wearing a dress, start suing private establishments for not letting them access the women's facilities. It will become legal fairly quickly at that point - and I guarantee that at that point both you and roguenuke who liked this post will be arguing that yes, in fact, it is a legal matter and should not be left up to the individual business policy.

    In America, you call it the land of the free, the land to make choices to the benefit of everyone and personal liberties are seen as being a cornerstone of your society. This also emboides letting trans men and women make their decision to be what gender they want to be. Gender is arguably a social construct. We box ourselvs into a pre defined role on the basis of us either having a penis or a vagina and then subscribe to a pre defined set of attributes. People are uncomfortable with the idea of trans people as it upsets whatever sort of 'norms' that they have. If we take it that a lot of conservatives in America want loose gun control (guns can kill people) vis a vis trans rights then that is a good basis for proving what sort of value system conservative America has....

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sionnach Cliste View Post
    In America, you call it the land of the free, the land to make choices to the benefit of everyone and personal liberties are seen as being a cornerstone of your society. This also emboides letting trans men and women make their decision to be what gender they want to be. Gender is arguably a social construct. We box ourselvs into a pre defined role on the basis of us either having a penis or a vagina and then subscribe to a pre defined set of attributes. People are uncomfortable with the idea of trans people as it upsets whatever sort of 'norms' that they have. If we take it that a lot of conservatives in America want loose gun control (guns can kill people) vis a vis trans rights then that is a good basis for proving what sort of value system conservative America has....
    Freedom is a two way street. If Johnny wants to insist that he's Sally, then he has every right to.... and a guy running a pizza shop or a gym has every right to insist that he is not.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Freedom is a two way street. If Johnny wants to insist that he's Sally, then he has every right to.... and a guy running a pizza shop or a gym has every right to insist that he is not.
    Identity is not reliant on another third party. Could I insist you were homosexual? (even though you probably arent?)

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sionnach Cliste View Post
    Identity is not reliant on another third party. Could I insist you were homosexual? (even though you probably arent?)
    Sure, if you wanted to. And I would be under no obligation to alter my behavior in any way whatsoever to accommodate you, nor you to me.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure, if you wanted to. And I would be under no obligation to alter my behavior in any way whatsoever to accommodate you, nor you to me.
    But if I felt like doing so and went with the ridiculous idea of a conscience clause I could discriminate? So essentially what you are saying is that we can dish out maltretment as we do not have to hold people in parity of esteem? We can see others as inequals?

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sionnach Cliste View Post
    But if I felt like doing so and went with the ridiculous idea of a conscience clause I could discriminate?
    So long as you are not the government, yeah, if you wanted to. That's freedom. Just as I and all my friends and neighbors have the right to discriminate against your business for you doing so by not doing business with you. That's also freedom. It's a two-way street.

    So essentially what you are saying is that we can dish out maltretment as we do not have to hold people in parity of esteem? We can see others as inequals?
    Welcome to liberty. It requires that you tolerate the continued existence and freedom of your fellow man, even those with whom you disagree. That can be a bit tiresome, agreeably, but we've found (well, lots of us at least still believe - it's no longer an assumption over here) that it's better than the alternative of ideological tyranny.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sionnach Cliste View Post
    In America, you call it the land of the free, the land to make choices to the benefit of everyone and personal liberties are seen as being a cornerstone of your society. This also emboides letting trans men and women make their decision to be what gender they want to be. Gender is arguably a social construct. We box ourselvs into a pre defined role on the basis of us either having a penis or a vagina and then subscribe to a pre defined set of attributes. People are uncomfortable with the idea of trans people as it upsets whatever sort of 'norms' that they have. If we take it that a lot of conservatives in America want loose gun control (guns can kill people) vis a vis trans rights then that is a good basis for proving what sort of value system conservative America has....
    Freedom means that the one who believes they are female/male when they are not cannot force that belief or force others to take actions based on that person's identity. They have the freedom to believe and chose, and others have the freedom to not support or accept that choice or allow that person's views on gender identity impact their own or what they do with those views.
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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sionnach Cliste View Post
    Identity is not reliant on another third party. Could I insist you were homosexual? (even though you probably arent [sic]?)
    It's not even about who claims what about one's own identity, or anyone else's. It's about what is objectively true, as opposed to what someone might claim in opposition to that objective truth.

    For example, I am a middle-aged white man.

    If I claimed to be a young black woman, if I claimed to “identify” as a young black woman, that would just be nonsense. My age is what it is, by ethnicity is what it is, and my sex is what it is, and I cannot change any of these attributes.

    If someone else identifies me as a young black woman, then again, that is just nonsense; equal to the nonsense it would be if I made that claim myself.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So long as you are not the government, yeah, if you wanted to. That's freedom. Just as I and all my friends and neighbors have the right to discriminate against your business for you doing so by not doing business with you. That's also freedom. It's a two-way street.



    Welcome to liberty. It requires that you tolerate the continued existence and freedom of your fellow man, even those with whom you disagree. That can be a bit tiresome, agreeably, but we've found (well, lots of us at least still believe - it's no longer an assumption over here) that it's better than the alternative of ideological tyranny.
    That is the beauty of the free world, letting people lead their lives as they see fit and disagreeing with them but it also involves extending the same protection to them

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