View Poll Results: Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

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  • Yes

    77 47.53%
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    63 38.89%
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    11 6.79%
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Thread: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

  1. #811
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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    No. One's gender is defined primarily by one's chromosomes (X/Y vs. X/X), and one's consequent innate capacity to produce one type of germ cell or the other (sperm vs. eggs). One's gender is secondarily defined by one's hormone-induced physical development from pre-birth to adulthood. Transgendered people do not have either of such traits of the gender that they want to be, except perhaps in the case of the development of the brain. Therefore at most, a transgendered person could be considered a person of chimeric gender.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by zom View Post
    The ability to get pregnant has nothing to do with gender roles.
    Really. and how many kids do you have?

    Gender Roles are built on cultural expressions of biological reality. That doesn't mean they are always wise or always good, it means that they draw their existence off of the real, physical, differences between men and women. Men can't get pregnant. Women aren't generally as suited to killing mastadons with a sharpened stick, then dragging them back to the cave, and then killing members of the tribe next valley over when they try to take a cut. Men can't lactate. Etc.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-15-15 at 08:33 AM.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Really. Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392] and how many kids do you have?

    Gender Roles are built on cultural expressions of biological reality. That doesn't mean they are always wise or always good, it means that they draw their existence off of the real, physical, differences between men and women. Men can't get pregnant. Women aren't generally as suited to killing mastadons with a sharpened stick, then dragging them back to the cave, and then killing members of the tribe next valley over when they try to take a cut. Men can't lactate. Etc.
    Men* can't get pregnant, woman may have not killed mastadons with sticks when we barely had spoken language, therefore the expectance for females to be submissive in the face of evidence which presents that they are not inherently submissive makes sense?

    That doesn't follow, and neither does the introduction to random "female" versions of products, clothes, colors etc. It's an appeal to traditionalism combined with chicken vs. egg argument certainty, combined with a market that benefits off of false dichotomies and roles they create and enforce.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by zom View Post
    Men* can't get pregnant, woman may have not killed mastadons with sticks when we barely had spoken language, therefore the expectance for females to be submissive in the face of evidence which presents that they are not inherently submissive makes sense?
    Nobody said anything about submission until you brought it up.

    That doesn't follow, and neither does the introduction to random "female" versions of products, clothes, colors etc. It's an appeal to traditionalism combined with chicken vs. egg argument certainty, combined with a market that benefits off of false dichotomies and roles they create and enforce.
    Ooo. "False Dichotomies". I'll bet your professor bumped you up half a letter for that one.

    Sorry, sorry, that's catty.



    look, you can pick at specifics if you like, the fact remains that gender roles are built on biological realities, however they get built. In no society have men stayed home with infants while women went off to war - for basic, biological reasons. Women lactate, men are stronger. You can argue that some gender roles that have been created are no longer necessary or apt, and I'll agree with you. But the blanket statement that there are no connections is on it's face ridiculous - ideology trying to trump physical reality. The idea that pregnancy has nothing to do with gender roles is laughable.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by zom View Post
    She is a girl by the most modern definition.
    No, "she" is a man. He does not have a uterus, a real vagina, a clit, etc. Man.

    New information breeds new policies - maybe fights should be regulated in terms of weight, muscle mass, etc. Solutions change as the problems do. The fact that this has come up supports my claim. There are a few common sense solutions to one exceedingly strong woman facing much weaker ones. It's not a noteworthy topic but the transphobes want it to be. This wouldn't be an issue were it a non-trans man facing much much weaker other non-trans men.
    No. A man should not take place in woman's sports and vice versa. Any athlete will tell you this. I was a very good athlete.

    It's not really a guess but more of an educated hypothesis with a knowledge base to support it - much more than the opposing position has.
    I have an educated hypothesis with a knowledge base to support it as well... so there goes your theory.

    The fact is that male is simply an adjective to describe a preconceived notion of sex that is inwardly and outwardly expressed, which is not black and white always.
    That is ridiculous... a male is a biolaogical fact. Penis, etc.

    PC is a phrase used to dismiss critiques that are subjectively deemed unimportant. It's a tool that's used to dismiss a standard series of logical procedures without presenting an argument or counter argument. There is no such thing. It cannot be defined and articulately argued. It's effectively a deflective buzzword.
    PC is an attack method designed to quite an opponent by putting them on the defensive... here, look how easy it works:

    Your arguments here are sexist. You are a sexist.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No, "she" is a man. He does not have a uterus, a real vagina, a clit, etc. Man.



    No. A man should not take place in woman's sports and vice versa. Any athlete will tell you this. I was a very good athlete.



    I have an educated hypothesis with a knowledge base to support it as well... so there goes your theory.



    That is ridiculous... a male is a biolaogical fact. Penis, etc.



    PC is an attack method designed to quite an opponent by putting them on the defensive... here, look how easy it works:

    Your arguments here are sexist. You are a sexist.
    XX or XY, cromosomes don't lie.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    XX or XY, cromosomes don't lie.
    When's the last time you looked at a DNA test to determine someone's sex? I doubt you do it for the vast majority of people you come into contact with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    When's the last time you looked at a DNA test to determine someone's sex? I doubt you do it for the vast majority of people you come into contact with.
    It's either a boy, or a girl. Anything else is a lie.

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    When's the last time you looked at a DNA test to determine someone's sex? I doubt you do it for the vast majority of people you come into contact with.
    How is that relevant to the facts?

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    How is that relevant to the facts?
    People keep bringing up DNA as the thing that determines a person's sex/gender, as if people truly use actual DNA in determining how they treat people, what sex/gender they view people as. This is simply not reality. Most people simply assume that a person's DNA matches their visible gender, those cues that they use to match gender with sex.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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