View Poll Results: Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

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  • Yes

    77 47.53%
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    63 38.89%
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    11 6.79%
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Thread: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

  1. #701
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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In what sense? In theory, men and women are supposed to be equal under the law.
    Was this ever answered?
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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Was this ever answered?


    I dunno. I lost track of this thread two weeks ago.

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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    That which is "obvious" is not always true. For a long time it was obvious that the sun circled the earth. Of course, falsely defining the problem is also a hindrance. The problem is not that the mind/self is wrong. The problem is not that the body is wrong. The problem is that they are mismatched. Currently, the better solution is to alter the body to match the self. Do you have any links to therapy to alter the self to match the body that isn't akin to homosexuality conversion therapy?
    Should we allow anorexics to have their body match their mindset?

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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Should we allow anorexics to have their body match their mindset?
    Do you mean legally allow them to as opposed to legally forcing them into procedures they do not want?
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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Should we allow anorexics to have their body match their mindset?
    I've been studying for my exams too much. I missed my own context of the line. Currently we have methods and techniques that would not cause any mental trauma to bring the mind in line with the body. That said, yes the anorexic should have the legal choice of whether to bring the body in line with the self or the self in line with the body.

    Ideally a transgender should also have such a choice as to which is brought in line with the other. However, we do not currently have, to my knowledge, a method that is not akin to homosexual conversion therapy in the harm it does to the individual. As I asked before, provide links if we do. I am ready to admit if I missed such coming into being.

    Now personally I hope that such a method of brining the self in line with the body come into existence. I believe that the TG should be able choose which way they go. But until that happens, then we use the least harmful option of reconciling the two, which is the SRS
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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Do you mean legally allow them to as opposed to legally forcing them into procedures they do not want?
    I mean should we allow starving themselves to be approved therapy so that their body matches their thoughts.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I've been studying for my exams too much. I missed my own context of the line. Currently we have methods and techniques that would not cause any mental trauma to bring the mind in line with the body. That said, yes the anorexic should have the legal choice of whether to bring the body in line with the self or the self in line with the body.
    I have big issues with this, and I assume most would here also. In the end you're not curing the disease, you're just appeasing it, and doing more harm than good in the process.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I have big issues with this, and I assume most would here also. In the end you're not curing the disease, you're just appeasing it, and doing more harm than good in the process.
    So you would rather have the kind of harm that the homosexual conversion therapy causes? I've asked you several times if you can show me where there is any therapy out there that can bring the self in line with the body without that kind of damage.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    As a post-op trans woman, 3.5 years on hormones and advocate for this population, it saddens but does not surprise me to see uninformed comments.

    The NCAA looked at the issue of sports and found there was no physical difference if on hormones. We lose about half of our upper body and lower body strength but still have to haul around the skeletal structure of a guy. There is no advantage if on hormones. How many transwomen do you see in Division I basketball? As I recall at least a year of hormone suppression is required to play NCAA ball.

    The last thing I care about is sports. This is a legitimate Title IX issue, but I would like anti-discrimination ordinances. We are generally overeducated, twice as likely as the general population to have graduate degrees, but twice as likely to be unemployed. I know many transwoman who have lost highly paid jobs after coming out. Transphobia hits the poor and transwomen of color hardest of all.

    Violence: 72% of the hate crime homicides against the entire LGBT population have been against transwomen, most of those transwomen of color. Some of the attitudes I've seen in this over long thread on what really is not an issue to any mainstream organization like WPATH, APA or AMA perpetuate this violence.

    Fear is mongered. Jocks are going to pretend to be trans (and get 3 months of counseling, have hormones which make them potentially impotent) just to get a peak inside of a women's bathroom?

    Meanwhile, we desperately just want to pee in peace. When I was preop, I feared going either to the men's or the women's bathroom. I was 24/7 female but dared not do so in Oklahoma. Even post op and with an F on my driver's license, it is a scary proposition.

    I see in this thread we have been called mentally ill although not with sympathy. There is hate in the words which seems to know deep down that we are not mentally ill - we are simply different. There was a reason Magnus Hirschfeld's life work was piled on the 5/10/33 Berlin book burning. We are feared.

    I get all of this. I see it every day in Oklahoma. What I do not get is how a board devoted to debating can have so many posters who make harsh judgments without first putting in the hard effort to understand. Have any of those who think this is an illness actually talked to a transwoman? The clinicians who diagnose them do on a professional basis. They come to the same conclusion as did Harry Benjamin and Magnus Hirschfeld and every serious scientific body which has addressed the issue. Gender Dysphoria is real.

    I agree the question is imprecise. Legal rights are varied and cannot be generalized. The law has taken trans rights on an issue by issue basis and I am willing to discuss any issue from the tax deductibility of reassignment surgery to the decision last year to allow transition benefits in Medicare. What is horrible, though, is the underlying and unthinking premise of many posters who have no clue.

    A study last year found that only 8% of Americans know someone who is transgender. We seem to be everywhere but we aren't. Take some time and get to know us, please, before trotting out hateful stereotypes which have been debunked.

    To those who have been kind in this thread, greetings and thank you.
    Last edited by AlyssaD; 05-27-15 at 06:09 PM.

  10. #710
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    re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaD View Post
    I see in this thread we have been called mentally ill although not with sympathy. There is hate in the words which seems to know deep down that we are not mentally ill - we are simply different.
    As a matter of objective, undeniable, biological and scientific fact, you are, and will always be, male, not female. All the politically-correct crap that has been built around your condition does not change the solid truth. You are male, and to think that you are or can become female is delusional, perverse, and insane.

    And you have no legitimate business going into women's dressing rooms, locker rooms, restrooms, or similar facilities.

    You are not any more female than this guy is a lizard.

    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 05-27-15 at 07:07 PM. Reason: May Laurence Tureaud have compassion on you. — http://tinyurl.com/Laurence0Tureaud
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