View Poll Results: Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

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    77 47.53%
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Thread: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

  1. #581
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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    It is as much a part of the society as anything else to help the society

    People can and do change their sex, its currently a lot easier for MtF to change their sex than FtM but that'll change in the next ten years. The surgery is no more unethical than someone getting a transplant for a new organ. I know you don't see it that way but that is how it works.
    Your confusing gender with sex. They can not change their sex, but since gender is a socially created word they can change their gender according to some people like yourself. I happen to disagree since I associate someones gender with their sex, but other people just associate gender with appearance, so whatever.

    Getting an organ transplant is ethical since the organ in question being removed is in need of medical treatment and if not acted on the patient will die, while sex change operations involve acting on healthy body parts and damaging them beyond repair. They are not at all comparable, sorry.

    I mean transsexuals, transgender is a giant umbrella of possibilities that people can fall under. Transsexuals actively change their sex, through hormones and surgery. They are transgendered individuals as much as a drag queen/king is under the same umbrella.
    A drag queen is not necessarily a transgender, so that doesn't make much sense. Transsexual is used as you said for people that started hormone treatment at the very least, transgender can be used for both people that started treatment and those that didn't.

    I think you'd do well to actually meet a transsexual, but you probably have and didn't know it. While they aren't a high percentage of the population, as they are a minority of a minority, it is no different than meeting someone who is gay and not knowing it. Not everyone fits a mold of "flamboyant". You are probably picturing cross dressers instead of transsexuals in your head, and I can't fault you for that, but they are not the same.
    No, I'm picturing someone that looks like a woman well enough to play the part. I'm not one of those people foolish enough to believe hormone treatment and the surgery are not enough to fool people into believing a lie.

    And I have no interest in meeting a transsexual in real life, but I have more than once online. For me anyway, that is more than enough.
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-25-15 at 02:59 PM.

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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Your confusing gender with sex. They can not change their sex, but since gender is a socially created word they can change their gender according to some people like yourself. I happen to disagree since I associate someones gender with their sex, but other people just associate gender with appearance, so whatever.
    No I'm not confusing gender with sex. There is a medical letter attached to getting the SRS and it specificaly states "changed from biologically male/female to non-fertile female/male". Like I said, you don't like it, fine but you have no right to deny someone who is in pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Getting an organ transplant is ethical since the organ in question being removed is in need of medical treatment and if not acted on the patient will die, while sex change operations involve acting on healthy body parts and damaging them beyond repair. They are not at all comparable, sorry.
    Completely the same and comparable. You don't like it because of your own internal bias, fine but the fact you don't see someone who is willing to take their life as deserving is kind of disappointing. You clearly have never felt what they do on a regular basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A drag queen is not necessarily a transgender, so that doesn't make much sense. Transsexual is used as you said for people that started hormone treatment at the very least, transgender can be used for both people that started treatment and those that didn't.
    A drag queen/king fits under the transgender umbrella, even if they do it for entertainment.
    GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Transgender Issues | GLAAD
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, I'm picturing someone that looks like a woman well enough to play the part. I'm not one of those people foolish enough to believe hormone treatment and the surgery are not enough to fool people into believing a lie.
    And I have no interest in meeting a transsexual in real life, but I have more than once online. For me anyway, that is more than enough.
    I bet you have met one in real life and didn't know it. Hundreds of thousands of people do every day and don't know it (3% of 10% of population is pretty small though so if you are in a rural community that might make it harder but visit a larger city and you have). That discrimination is exactly what we are trying to eliminate. I understand change is uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to endure to make society better, we've done it every decade for thousands of years. Sometimes going backwards, but its worked and will continue to do so as technology evolves around us.
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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    No I'm not confusing gender with sex. There is a medical letter attached to getting the SRS and it specificaly states "changed from biologically male/female to non-fertile female/male". Like I said, you don't like it, fine but you have no right to deny someone who is in pain.
    That's pretty interesting, but it's biologically wrong. It's a bit disturbing doctors would lie like that, but then again, the field those doctors are in is known to be highly unethical.

    Completely the same and comparable. You don't like it because of your own internal bias, fine but the fact you don't see someone who is willing to take their life as deserving is kind of disappointing. You clearly have never felt what they do on a regular basis.
    No, it's really not. The genitals of a transgender are fully functional and healthy before surgery, but after surgery are impaired and reversibly harmed. Someone that needs a liver transplant is suffering from a condition where their liver will kill them if not removed and replaced with a suitable replacement. The ethical implications and the surgeries themselves are not comparable in the slightest.

    A drag queen/king fits under the transgender umbrella, even if they do it for entertainment.
    GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Transgender Issues | GLAAD
    A drag queen is someone that dresses like someone from the opposite sex, not someone that necessarily that is conflicted about their sex.

    I bet you have met one in real life and didn't know it. Hundreds of thousands of people do every day and don't know it (3% of 10% of population is pretty small though so if you are in a rural community that might make it harder but visit a larger city and you have). That discrimination is exactly what we are trying to eliminate. I understand change is uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to endure to make society better, we've done it every decade for thousands of years. Sometimes going backwards, but its worked and will continue to do so as technology evolves around us.
    I see no reason to adopt for a treatment that is unethical and does not properly treat the condition. I will also NOT accept men as women regardless of their efforts. Call it what you want, but women are women and men are men. Stop trying to pretend you are something you are not and I will accept you. I accept transgenders, but transsexuals I will never accept, sorry. Fakes are fakes and I refuse to accept a falsehood.

    And three to ten percent is for all LBGT community, not just transsexuals.

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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That's pretty interesting, but it's biologically wrong. It's a bit disturbing doctors would lie like that, but then again, the field those doctors are in is known to be highly unethical.
    It's not wrong at all. There are lot of medical conditions that can cause this. There is nothing unethical about it other than your own personal bias, again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it's really not. The genitals of a transgender are fully functional and healthy before surgery, but after surgery are impaired and reversibly harmed. Someone that needs a liver transplant is suffering from a condition where their liver will kill them if not removed and replaced with a suitable replacement. The ethical implications and the surgeries themselves are not comparable in the slightest.
    Yet the news is filled with people killing themselves due to lack of hope of correcting their situation via SRS/Hormones. Transsexuals have the highest suicide risk in this nation, and there is no reason for it, other than discrimination. Not all transsexuals have fully functioning genitalia, which is also something you probably didn't know. Human chromosomes like to break and mess with our genetic code all the time. That's why we have mutations of the genome, like being left handed, green eyes, red hair, and etc. We are only beginning to understand what each set does and in 10 to 20 years this silly back woods approach to people different will be gone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A drag queen is someone that dresses like someone from the opposite sex, not someone that necessarily that is conflicted about their sex.
    I never said they were interested in changing their sex, I said they fell under the transgendered umbrella, just like cross dressers, and gender queer (intersex) etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I see no reason to adopt for a treatment that is unethical and does not properly treat the condition. I will also NOT accept men as women regardless of their efforts. Call it what you want, but women are women and men are men. Stop trying to pretend you are something you are not and I will accept you. I accept transgenders, but transsexuals I will never accept, sorry. Fakes are fakes and I refuse to accept a falsehood.

    And three to ten percent is for all LBGT community, not just transsexuals.
    There is nothing fake about being transsexual, again person bias against someone. Its nothing more, but if you knew someone who was transsexual you'd probably be more open. That is how homosexuality has gained defenders in the past year. Once you realize it is something that cannot be changed and it is pretty biological people realize its dumb to punish someone for something as silly as being left handed.

    I say 3 % of the 10% of the LGBT population. So you have a population of 10,000. Approximately 1,000 people will be gay, and 3% of those 1,000 people may be transsexual. (30). Which is why I mentioned in a rural area it'd be pretty hard to meet someone like that to help remove the bias you have. If you go to a larger city though, or frequently go to one. I'm sure you've interacted with a transsexual and never known it.
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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Helping someone on your own free will is noble and something to admire, but forcing your fellow human being to help others is contemptible behavior that should be scorned and condemned.
    I don't know that this is always true, but it is certainly true when the “help” being rendered is something as sick and destructive as what “transgenders” insist on having done to them; and which the vast majority of those being here asked to “help” with this would want no part of.
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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    It's not wrong at all. There are lot of medical conditions that can cause this. There is nothing unethical about it other than your own personal bias, again.


    Yet the news is filled with people killing themselves due to lack of hope of correcting their situation via SRS/Hormones. Transsexuals have the highest suicide risk in this nation, and there is no reason for it, other than discrimination. Not all transsexuals have fully functioning genitalia, which is also something you probably didn't know. Human chromosomes like to break and mess with our genetic code all the time. That's why we have mutations of the genome, like being left handed, green eyes, red hair, and etc. We are only beginning to understand what each set does and in 10 to 20 years this silly back woods approach to people different will be gone.



    I never said they were interested in changing their sex, I said they fell under the transgendered umbrella, just like cross dressers, and gender queer (intersex) etc.


    There is nothing fake about being transsexual, again person bias against someone. Its nothing more, but if you knew someone who was transsexual you'd probably be more open. That is how homosexuality has gained defenders in the past year. Once you realize it is something that cannot be changed and it is pretty biological people realize its dumb to punish someone for something as silly as being left handed.

    I say 3 % of the 10% of the LGBT population. So you have a population of 10,000. Approximately 1,000 people will be gay, and 3% of those 1,000 people may be transsexual. (30). Which is why I mentioned in a rural area it'd be pretty hard to meet someone like that to help remove the bias you have. If you go to a larger city though, or frequently go to one. I'm sure you've interacted with a transsexual and never known it.
    Hi, Nicci - Henrin and Blaylock are hopeless. They have no clue what it means to be transgender. I don't know if Bruce Jenner coming out will help them understand or not. Thank you for your comments. I know transgender people, and that does make a difference. As you say, it's like being left-handed. We used to force left-handers to write with their right hand. That was wrong. And it's wrong to force people to be a gender that isn't theirs.

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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Hi, Nicci - Henrin and Blaylock are hopeless. They have no clue what it means to be transgender. I don't know if Bruce Jenner coming out will help them understand or not. Thank you for your comments. I know transgender people, and that does make a difference. As you say, it's like being left-handed. We used to force left-handers to write with their right hand. That was wrong. And it's wrong to force people to be a gender that isn't theirs.
    Ahem..there is no solid proof they were actually born into the wrong body. The only real evidence that I have seen is brain chemistry arguments that don't account for people with the same brain chemistry but aren't transgender.

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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    It's not wrong at all. There are lot of medical conditions that can cause this. There is nothing unethical about it other than your own personal bias, again.
    No, factually it is wrong to say they changed sexes. You can make the gender argument because gender is subjective, but that isn't true for sex.

    Yet the news is filled with people killing themselves due to lack of hope of correcting their situation via SRS/Hormones.
    Yeah?

    Transsexuals have the highest suicide risk in this nation, and there is no reason for it, other than discrimination.
    If you say so. Maybe they should consider making a choice that doesn't amount to deception and lies.

    Not all transsexuals have fully functioning genitalia, which is also something you probably didn't know.
    True. It was a general statement, so of course there will be exceptions.

    Human chromosomes like to break and mess with our genetic code all the time.
    The evidence of this being relevant to transgenders is?

    That's why we have mutations of the genome, like being left handed, green eyes, red hair, and etc. We are only beginning to understand what each set does and in 10 to 20 years this silly back woods approach to people different will be gone.
    There is actually known reasons for those kind of things though.

    I never said they were interested in changing their sex, I said they fell under the transgendered umbrella, just like cross dressers, and gender queer (intersex) etc.
    That's nice that GLAAD included them I guess. I don't see why I would care though.

    There is nothing fake about being transsexual, again person bias against someone. Its nothing more, but if you knew someone who was transsexual you'd probably be more open.
    Probably not. I'm kind of a stubborn asshole. There is also a considerable amount of fakeness in being a transsexual. They are essentially men parading around like they are women. They are by all intents and purposes a counterfeit.

    That is how homosexuality has gained defenders in the past year. Once you realize it is something that cannot be changed and it is pretty biological people realize its dumb to punish someone for something as silly as being left handed.
    My adopted uncle is gay. Finding that information out didn't change my opinion on the subject in the slightest.

    I say 3 % of the 10% of the LGBT population. So you have a population of 10,000. Approximately 1,000 people will be gay, and 3% of those 1,000 people may be transsexual. (30). Which is why I mentioned in a rural area it'd be pretty hard to meet someone like that to help remove the bias you have. If you go to a larger city though, or frequently go to one. I'm sure you've interacted with a transsexual and never known it.
    Maybe, but I'm usually pretty reserved and don't talk to people all that much in real life. Funny how I'm a loud mouth on here I guess.

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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    It's interesting that the intolerance ends to come from the right politically, and against M/F trans people. Nobody has railed aginst F/M trans people invading restrooms and locker-rooms, in the many threads on the topic.
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    Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's interesting that the intolerance ends to come from the right politically, and against M/F trans people. Nobody has railed aginst F/M trans people invading restrooms and locker-rooms, in the many threads on the topic.
    That's because the opposing surgery sucks and no one usually makes the argument they can change sexes.

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