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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
So the answer is "yes" any man who claims to be a woman, no matter what, has a right to use the ladies room.

I disagree.
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Many "men", from what many of those against recognizing transgendered women as women believe, can enter the ladies' room now and not have anyone notice. Are you going to set up a "pecker checker" at the door of every restroom, locker room, and changing room in America? Make people show their ID to prove they are a woman or a man before they can enter one of these places? Or are you just going to arrest/harass anyone who "looks" like they might be a man or woman in the wrong restroom, locker room, etc.?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
Many "men", from what many of those against recognizing transgendered women as women believe, can enter the ladies' room now and not have anyone notice. Are you going to set up a "pecker checker" at the door of every restroom, locker room, and changing room in America? Make people show their ID to prove they are a woman or a man before they can enter one of these places? Or are you just going to arrest/harass anyone who "looks" like they might be a man or woman in the wrong restroom, locker room, etc.?
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If you are at a front desk at a gym, and you see that guy above walking into the ladies room, you aren't going to bat an eye?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

What guy? What would happen if he did go in, use a stall like everyone else, and leave? Are we arresting people for what they MIGHT do now?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Well that is just purposely missing the point to support an illogical argument.
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No, that's pointing out that concept and reality do not perfectly match up. Your concept of "man" or "woman" is not absolute.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
If you are at a front desk at a gym, and you see that guy above walking into the ladies room, you aren't going to bat an eye?
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The gym said that they let people into the locker room of the gender they "sincerely" identified as. That would mean that the person would almost certainly be dressed as a woman. If he wasn't, then he wouldn't be trying to take advantage of any policy or pretending to be a woman just for access to women's locker rooms.

Plus, assuming that he is going to commit a crime just because you identify him as a him walking into a women's restroom (despite presenting himself as a "her") is actually a form of thought policing. And you can't say "well the policy only applies to men who can't pass as women".

Would it be okay for people to harass "Caroline" for not quite looking like a woman despite being intersexed and simply wanting to enter the ladies' restroom?

78793b2520a5b65c9781_Caroline_Kinsey_1.jpg
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Manc Skipper said:
What guy? What would happen if he did go in, use a stall like everyone else, and leave? Are we arresting people for what they MIGHT do now?
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Go up a few posts. consider what I am saying, then try again.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
The gym said that they let people into the locker room of the gender they "sincerely" identified as. That would mean that the person would almost certainly be dressed as a woman. If he wasn't, then he wouldn't be trying to take advantage of any policy or pretending to be a woman just for access to women's locker rooms.
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how and who determines who's "sincere"? are you saying men who want to be women must follow a dress code?


Plus, assuming that he is going to commit a crime just because you identify him as a him walking into a women's restroom (despite presenting himself as a "her") is actually a form of thought policing. And you can't say "well the policy only applies to men who can't pass as women".
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Wait, you engage in "thought policing" then accuse me of it? lol


I see a creepy looking dude trying to get into a womens locker room, I might say something, even if he claims to be a woman.


Would it be okay for people to harass "Caroline" for not quite looking like a woman despite being intersexed and simply wanting to enter the ladies' restroom?
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View attachment 67182972[/QUOTE]




that's biological, that's not the same.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
No, that's pointing out that concept and reality do not perfectly match up. Your concept of "man" or "woman" is not absolute.
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No, what you're doing is looking at natural differences within a given sex and then using that to claim a surgical and hormonally altered male is a female.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
how and who determines who's "sincere"? are you saying men who want to be women must follow a dress code?

Wait, you engage in "thought policing" then accuse me of it? lol

I see a creepy looking dude trying to get into a womens locker room, I might say something, even if he claims to be a woman.

View attachment 67182972

that's biological, that's not the same.
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Just let them go into which one they want to go into then.

The question is, are you going to check to ensure she doesn't have one or he does? Are you going to check DNA to see?

I'm actually okay with a place opening a unisex bathroom/locker room, but doubt such a thing would go over very well with others. Not likely to go over very well to do this though for the general public.

And as for Caroline, how would you know that she was intersexed? Should she be obligated to tell you rather than simply say "I'm a woman", despite having been raised for 40 years as a man? How much should someone be forced to share in such a situation where they are stopped and asked about their gender? How do you prove they aren't lying?
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
Just let them go into which one they want to go into then.

The question is, are you going to check to ensure she doesn't have one or he does? Are you going to check DNA to see?

I'm actually okay with a place opening a unisex bathroom/locker room, but doubt such a thing would go over very well with others. Not likely to go over very well to do this though for the general public.

And as for Caroline, how would you know that she was intersexed? Should she be obligated to tell you rather than simply say "I'm a woman", despite having been raised for 40 years as a man? How much should someone be forced to share in such a situation where they are stopped and asked about their gender? How do you prove they aren't lying?
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you do know, this "intersex" is like .005% of the population, not really something you can latch onto those who choose to look like the opposite sex.


obama put in a unisex bathroom in the whitehouse.


and again, I don't care who uses what bathroom, I simply think you all are not considering the unintended consequences.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
you do know, this "intersex" is like .005% of the population, not really something you can latch onto those who choose to look like the opposite sex.

obama put in a unisex bathroom in the whitehouse.

and again, I don't care who uses what bathroom, I simply think you all are not considering the unintended consequences.
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But that fact is still protected as medical information and you couldn't know who legitimately was intersexed or not and couldn't force them to tell you if they were or if they were simply transgender.

Um, okay? So there are "unisex" bathrooms in the White House? Most houses have unisex bathrooms. I've never designated my household bathrooms by gender, nor have I heard of such a thing. Some stores lately have unisex restrooms available with segregated bathrooms.

I simply don't see the likelihood of any implied "unintended consequences" as happening, at least not in a manner that couldn't be easily taken care of with other laws.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
But that fact is still protected as medical information and you couldn't know who legitimately was intersexed or not and couldn't force them to tell you if they were or if they were simply transgender.
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it's really not relevant.

Um, okay? So there are "unisex" bathrooms in the White House? Most houses have unisex bathrooms. I've never designated my household bathrooms by gender, nor have I heard of such a thing. Some stores lately have unisex restrooms available with segregated bathrooms.
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Just sayin what he did, replying to your point about unisex bathrooms, I really dont care.


I simply don't see the likelihood of any implied "unintended consequences" as happening, at least not in a manner that couldn't be easily taken care of with other laws.
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More laws! hooray laws!
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
it's really not relevant.

Just sayin what he did, replying to your point about unisex bathrooms, I really dont care.

More laws! hooray laws!
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Laws already in place, like harassment or sexual assault.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
"lady u r a d00d, use the mens room" is harrassment or sexual assault?
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What are you talking about?

roguenuke said:
I simply don't see the likelihood of any implied "unintended consequences" as happening, at least not in a manner that couldn't be easily taken care of with other laws.
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What unintended consequences would you have been talking about other than something like sexual harassment, sexual assault, or rape? Pretty sure it had nothing to do with people stopping someone to "direct them" to the other restroom.

If they are not really a "dood", yes can be harassment, not to mention pretty disrespectful. And why should you be the arbiter of what makes a person a "dood"? What if you're wrong? And how does someone have to prove you wrong?
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
No, what you're doing is looking at natural differences within a given sex and then using that to claim a surgical and hormonally altered male is a female.
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I'm arguing it's more of a continuum and you're arbitrarily putting boundaries along it based on social metrics.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
I'm arguing it's more of a continuum and you're arbitrarily putting boundaries along it based on social metrics.
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Ok, so how are biological and genetic boundaries arbitrary boundaries based on social metrics?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
No, what you're doing is looking at natural differences within a given sex and then using that to claim a surgical and hormonally altered male is a female.
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You are seeking to ban them from certain places on simlar grounds.
 
Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
So this rare syndrome proves what? This is a biological condition.
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It's a nonsensical attempt to use the characteristics of extremely-rare outliers to “prove” something that is simply not true about the 99.8% of the population that are not among those outliers.
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Ok, so how are biological and genetic boundaries arbitrary boundaries based on social metrics?
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As provided multiple times, intersex beings provide a continuum. They have a combination or absence of X and Y chromosomes outside of the "standard."
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
As provided multiple times, intersex beings provide a continuum. They have a combination or absence of X and Y chromosomes outside of the "standard."
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Are autosomal defects supposed to prove something?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Wow. We're done. Jesus dude.
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Meh. You're mistaking "being in the majority" for "being correct." Outliers are only wrong or right within a context, that context is by nature subjective.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Meh. You're mistaking "being in the majority" for "being correct." Outliers are only wrong or right within a context, that context is by nature subjective.
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Genetic knowledge is not subjective. You're basically making an anti-science argument.
 
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