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Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?


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How would I exploit labor? I'm a laborer working to collect money, which I in turn use to buy food. I specifically said accumulate wealth in mass numbers as well.

So if you were given the chance, you would not do either of those? I'm pretty sure there are people living in a state much worse than yours. Where is your capital?
 
So if you were given the chance, you would not do either of those? I'm pretty sure there are people living in a state much worse than yours. Where is your capital?

Accumulate billions of dollars and seek out workers in Africa/china/haiti/etc to exploit cheap labor? If I was given the chance, I'd hope not. That is what I'm talking about here, not the small business owner or mcdonalds manager.
 
Accumulate billions of dollars and seek out workers in Africa/china/haiti/etc to exploit cheap labor? If I was given the chance, I'd hope not. That is what I'm talking about here, not the small business owner or mcdonalds manager.

So do not the small business owner (or the bourgeoisie) try not to exploit labor? Do they not try to make use of the surplus value? Do they not try to accumulate more? Do they not desire billions? Do you not desire billions?
 
So do not the small business owner (or the bourgeoisie) try not to exploit labor? Do they not try to make use of the surplus value? Do they not try to accumulate more? Do they not desire billions? Do you not desire billions?

A small business owner does exploit labor, yes, but most small businesses don't grow into multi billion dollar international giants that exploit third world countries and control where food goes,etc,etc,etc.... I focus on the real problems, one step at a time I suppose. I don't desire billions either, just enough to help my family, and feed myself.
 
A small business owner does exploit labor, yes, but most small businesses don't grow into multi billion dollar international giants that exploit third world countries and control where food goes,etc,etc,etc.... I focus on the real problems, one step at a time I suppose. I don't desire billions either, just enough to help my family, and feed myself.

So you wouldn't want enough to get you a nice car? A big house maybe? Some good education for your kids (if you have some or are planning to have some)? How about some nice clothes?

In addition, does the fact that small businesses aren't yet multi-billion dollar corporations change the fact that they try to accumulate wealth? Does having the intent but not the means excuse the crime/wrong? Don't all multi-billion dollar corporations get their start somewhere?
 
So you wouldn't want enough to get you a nice car? A big house maybe? Some good education for your kids (if you have some or are planning to have some)? How about some nice clothes?

In addition, does the fact that small businesses aren't yet multi-billion dollar corporations change the fact that they try to accumulate wealth? Does having the intent but not the means excuse the crime/wrong? Don't all multi-billion dollar corporations get their start somewhere?

I wouldn't need a nice car, a big house? I live comfortably in a small house now, education shouldn't cost money... but If I needed to get education for kids I don't have, I would attempt to save money to do this, as the entire world revolves around using money to buy what is needed to live from capitalists. Nice clothes? I have clothing, that's all I need. I've mentioned they are trying to accumulate wealth, but it is not logical to focus on them, I don't see small businesses literally destroying other countries, the environment, etc, etc, etc... I never said it excuses it, and I suppose they do, but it's no excuse for the acts they commit.
 
I wouldn't need a nice car, a big house? I live comfortably in a small house now, education shouldn't cost money... but If I needed to get education for kids I don't have, I would attempt to save money to do this, as the entire world revolves around using money to buy what is needed to live from capitalists. Nice clothes? I have clothing, that's all I need. I've mentioned they are trying to accumulate wealth, but it is not logical to focus on them, I don't see small businesses literally destroying other countries, the environment, etc, etc, etc... I never said it excuses it, and I suppose they do, but it's no excuse for the acts they commit.

Don't you think it is hypocritical of you to try to save some money for your children then when billions don't even have enough to eat?
 
A small business owner does exploit labor, yes, but most small businesses don't grow into multi billion dollar international giants that exploit third world countries and control where food goes,etc,etc,etc....

That's interesting. I've got an uncle who built himself into a multi-millionaire. No college education, blue-collar worker, just created a company, worked 14 hour days 6 days a week, blood, sweat, tears, etc. Built up an incredible success record by paying his workers more than the going wage on the market, enabling him to hire and retain the best.

Now, those people got their jobs - got their pay raises, their ability to feed their families, from my uncle's initial hard work and investment. The business is really a family - they go to each others' houses on Christmas, their kids know each other, most of them have been together over a decade, etc. How, exactly, is that an exploitative relationship on his part?

I don't desire billions either, just enough to help my family, and feed myself.

So.... you want to live in (by US Standards) serious poverty.
 
Don't you think it is hypocritical of you to try to save some money for your children then when billions don't even have enough to eat?

Not to mention that his "modest house and car" probably still leave him in the Global Top 1%.
 
Don't you think it is hypocritical of you to try to save some money for your children then when billions don't even have enough to eat?

The issue with this is, saving a couple thousand dollars in order to get privatized education is nothing to hoarding billions of dollars and purposefully not distributing food to make sure a profit is made. I donate to charities whenever I can that help deal with hunger, but when you live in a system where you need to acquire money to buy what is needed to live from those who sell it for profit.. well, the world sucks.
 
That's interesting. I've got an uncle who built himself into a multi-millionaire. No college education, blue-collar worker, just created a company, worked 14 hour days 6 days a week, blood, sweat, tears, etc. Built up an incredible success record by paying his workers more than the going wage on the market, enabling him to hire and retain the best.

Now, those people got their jobs - got their pay raises, their ability to feed their families, from my uncle's initial hard work and investment. The business is really a family - they go to each others' houses on Christmas, their kids know each other, most of them have been together over a decade, etc. How, exactly, is that an exploitative relationship on his part?



So.... you want to live in (by US Standards) serious poverty.

Sure, in regards to the serious poverty thing, It's essentially how I've had to life my live in the past, and I was perfectly happy, along with my family. As long as I have food, shelter.. Luckily, I can work now along with my mother.
Your uncle is a very lucky example, and if all businesses actually did what your uncle did and paid workers a fair wage, I might learn to enjoy capitalism.
 
my biggest criticism of his presidency is that he didn't go straight to the American people with a frank sales pitch more often. however, to do what needed done, you'd have to have the America of 1930. we live in an America that is divided almost 50 / 50, and that divide is the size of an ocean. that means that neither side can get much of anything done, even when the economy gets destroyed by gambling.

Although he can give a good speech, he doesn't appear to me to be an effective salesperson. That's one problem that he has. Not only that, I think he made the mistake early on of trying to please everybody.
 
Accumulate billions of dollars and seek out workers in Africa/china/haiti/etc to exploit cheap labor? If I was given the chance, I'd hope not. That is what I'm talking about here, not the small business owner or mcdonalds manager.

So if you ran a business you would overpay for labor? That's kind of stupid.
 
So if you ran a business you would overpay for labor? That's kind of stupid.

I wouldn't purposefully rely on sweatshops, no. Overpay for labor? If a sweatshop worker produces $100 in clothing per hour, and gets paid 25 cents an hour AND THAT'S BEING GENEROUS TO THE SWEATSHOP OWNERS, I guess that's not exploitation.
 
I wouldn't purposefully rely on sweatshops, no. Overpay for labor? If a sweatshop worker produces $100 in clothing per hour, and gets paid 25 cents an hour AND THAT'S BEING GENEROUS TO THE SWEATSHOP OWNERS, I guess that's not exploitation.

So what would you do? Would you keep your operations in America even if there was cheaper labor elsewhere?
 
So what would you do? Would you keep your operations in America even if there was cheaper labor elsewhere?

I've always heard that good business owners exist who will want to pay laborers a somewhat honest wage in comparison to the value they produce, I know they do exist, almost always small businesses, but are you telling me business owners, by nature, always look for the cheapest labor to produce more profit for themselves? Interesting news.
 
The issue with this is, saving a couple thousand dollars in order to get privatized education is nothing to hoarding billions of dollars and purposefully not distributing food to make sure a profit is made. I donate to charities whenever I can that help deal with hunger, but when you live in a system where you need to acquire money to buy what is needed to live from those who sell it for profit.. well, the world sucks.

What's different? Someone is out there starving although he/she would not be starving if he/she had your couple thousand dollars. Whether it be thousands or billions, the same crime is being committed (of course, according to your logic).

If you have a better system, please do share. Capitalism is not perfect (then again, what is?) but what we call capitalism today (which is very, very different from what was called capitalism in Smithian times) is a culmination of all we have experienced in history. I would be very interested in this revolutionary idea which you have that is better than what we have today.
 
I've always heard that good business owners exist who will want to pay laborers a somewhat honest wage in comparison to the value they produce, I know they do exist, almost always small businesses, but are you telling me business owners, by nature, always look for the cheapest labor to produce more profit for themselves? Interesting news.

I'm telling you that it's good business. Why would I pay someone fifteen dollars an hour when I can pay someone three dollars an hour for the same work? It just doesn't make any sense to pay twelve dollars more than I need to.
 
Although he can give a good speech, he doesn't appear to me to be an effective salesperson. That's one problem that he has. Not only that, I think he made the mistake early on of trying to please everybody.

my guess is that he thought that it was possible to build a bipartisan consensus to solve major issues at first. it's going to take a long time before everyone accepts that the system itself needs significant changes, and that a new and optimistic politician might not be enough.
 
I'm telling you that it's good business. Why would I pay someone fifteen dollars an hour when I can pay someone three dollars an hour for the same work? It just doesn't make any sense to pay twelve dollars more than I need to.

So you admit capitalists can care less about how much they pay their laborers? Thanks for the support Henrin, as always.
 
my guess is that he thought that it was possible to build a bipartisan consensus to solve major issues at first. it's going to take a long time before everyone accepts that the system itself needs significant changes, and that a new and optimistic politician might not be enough.

The problem is systemic. And one of the biggest problems is that it gives far too much power to those with wealth. Obviously they will have some, but what we have now is much too distorted.
 
So you admit capitalists can care less about how much they pay their laborers? Thanks for the support Henrin, as always.

Tell me, would you pay fifteen dollars for a product when you can get the same product for three dollars?
 
So you admit capitalists can care less about how much they pay their laborers? Thanks for the support Henrin, as always.

the problem is you have an unrealistic view of society and economics. It might be why you are stuck raging against the system rather than doing well in it. but the fact remains, labor is a commodity. If I ran a company that used lots of steel, I'd go out of business if I paid 20 dollars more per pound of steel than my competitors. If I am a delivery company, I'd go out of business if I paid 3 dollars more for a gallon of fuel than other delivery companies. and If I pay 10 dollars more an hour for the same quality of labor as my competitors I will also go out of business.

and you can argue that some workers are underpaid but that is based on your subjective views rather than the reality of the marketplace
 
Tell me, would you pay fifteen dollars for a product when you can get the same product for three dollars?

You're now calling people, laborers, products. No wonder people fought so hard against the minimum wage, labor unions.. Henrin, you're not helping the "good" of capitalism I'm always told about.
 
the problem is you have an unrealistic view of society and economics. It might be why you are stuck raging against the system rather than doing well in it. but the fact remains, labor is a commodity. If I ran a company that used lots of steel, I'd go out of business if I paid 20 dollars more per pound of steel than my competitors. If I am a delivery company, I'd go out of business if I paid 3 dollars more for a gallon of fuel than other delivery companies. and If I pay 10 dollars more an hour for the same quality of labor as my competitors I will also go out of business.

and you can argue that some workers are underpaid but that is based on your subjective views rather than the reality of the marketplace

Call it what you want, and hint that 80% of human beings living on less then $10 a day as needing to try harder all you want, the fact is, capitalists always search for the cheapest labor, always look to pay the lowest wage, that's why we struggled for the minimum wage, labor unions, factory safety laws, child labor laws, etc.. The issue with that is, I always hear about the beauty of competition, but, if doing better in competition involves exploiting laborers at a dramatic level to produce more profit, E.G. Sweatshops, how is that good? Workers are underpaid in the majority of the world, if a sweatshop worker produces $100 in clothing in an hour and gets paid pennies, I don't see how that's not underpaid.
 
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