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Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?


  • Total voters
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Of course the wealthy are too powerful, because wealth is power. I am very open to the idea of a maximum wealth/wage cap. That Koch and Soros and a handful of others have so much political power undermines the intent of our (representational) democracy. Concentration of ownership of mass media outlets is another big part of the problem.

I could get behind a wealth cap. :peace
 
being a non-profit doesn't change anything.

Correction: Capital, not wealth, as wealth can mean more then capital.
Under socialism, it would be for the collective good of everyone, the workers who own the production, ideally. Wait, non-profit doesn't change anything? :shock:
 
I could get behind a wealth cap. :peace

not going to happen. and its funny watching you all whine about the power of the wealthy when you want to create an entity powerful enough to cap the wealth of the wealthy. In other words, your solution to something you see as evil is to create even worse evil
 
Correction: Capital, not wealth, as wealth can mean more then capital.
Under socialism, it would be for the collective good of everyone, the workers who own the production, ideally. Wait, non-profit doesn't change anything? :shock:

nothing stops people now from creating a factory that they communally own. its how many small businesses work
 
nothing stops people now from creating a factory that they communally own. its how many small businesses work

What do you mean by "communally own" are you talking about every single worker in the factory actually owning it together, none with more of a stake in ownership then the other?
 
I believe the laborer should receive what their labor is worth, but this cannot happen under a system like capitalism, that's all I'll say, I understand being paid $100 doesn't work under capitalism, no profit for the owner, which is why I disagree with the system, one of many reasons. I hope you understand my POV.

I understand your inability to answer the question.... and , yes, i understand your POV.. it's not unlike any other communist POV that i've been witness to since the mid-60's
the POV, the rhetoric, the propaganda...even the inability to apply communist principles to real life circumstances.... it's all very familiar.
 
not going to happen. and its funny watching you all whine about the power of the wealthy when you want to create an entity powerful enough to cap the wealth of the wealthy. In other words, your solution to something you see as evil is to create even worse evil

Oh, I just accept the current system we live under, and if that system can be used to help stop the unnecessary accumulation of wealth, I'm down for it.
 
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I understand your inability to answer the question.... and , yes, i understand your POV.. it's not unlike any other communist POV that i've been witness to since the mid-60's
the POV, the rhetoric, the propaganda...even the inability to apply communist principles to real life circumstances.... it's all very familiar.

The question has no answer, it wouldn't matter what wage it is, it is still exploitation unless the worker receives something in equal value to what their labor is producing, but that cannot happen under capitalism.
 
I could get behind a wealth cap. :peace

So someone that is opposed to the state would support a wealth cap imposed by the state?

How does that work exactly?
 
So someone that is opposed to the state would support a wealth cap imposed by the state?

Oh, I'm fundamentally against the state, but I realize that the state won't go away any time soon, can do some good things, a wealth cap being one of them. I'm talking about a wealth cap that is insanely high though. I also realize capitalism can do good things, but the bad aspects far outweigh the positive aspects, I like to evaluate all sides.
 
Oh, I'm fundamentally against the state, but I realize that the state can do good things, a wealth cap being one of them. I'm talking about a wealth cap that is insanely high though.

So ok, your plan is to eliminate the state and your path to get there involves implementing a wealth cap. Yes, so instead of decreasing the power of the state you're big plan is to give the government the power to determine the maximum amount of wealth someone can obtain. Exactly how does that makes sense? You do realize that if you are going to eliminate the state you actually have to move in that direction, right?
 
So ok, your plan is to eliminate the state and your path to get there involves implementing a wealth cap. Yes, so instead of decreasing the power of the state you're big plan is to give the government the power to determine the maximum amount of wealth someone can obtain. Exactly how does that makes sense? You do realize that if you are going to eliminate the state you actually have to move in that direction, right?

I don't have a plan, I just agree with the tenets of communism. Do you have a plan to take down the state?
 
I don't have a plan, I just agree with the tenets of communism. Do you have a plan to take down the state?

I was actually playing on how communists like yourself try to put in place their system. They first do everything they can to empower the state and then somehow exact that it will lead to no state at all. The only possible way to eliminate the state is to strip the power from it first. You can't give the government complete control of everything and then somehow flip the switch to a stateless society.

Whenever I talk to communists I'm always left with the impression that they believe state power is a circle that leads to no government at all. Sorry, but it's a hill and you can't go down the hill by riding up the hill.
 
I was actually playing on how communists like yourself try to put in place their system. They first do everything they can to empower the state and then somehow exact that it will lead to no state at all. The only possible way to eliminate the state is to strip the power from it first. You can't give the government complete control of everything and then somehow flip the switch to a stateless society.

Yeah, I think the way Lenin/Mao/etc wanted to do things was a horrible idea, but I can understand the logic behind it. The issue is, stripping the powers includes screwing almost all of the population, I mean, the state does a **** ton of things that are already put in place and maintained by the state, it'd be a very very slow conversion, or immediate and violent.
 
I understand your inability to answer the question.... and , yes, i understand your POV.. it's not unlike any other communist POV that i've been witness to since the mid-60's
the POV, the rhetoric, the propaganda...even the inability to apply communist principles to real life circumstances.... it's all very familiar.
LOL yeah its always the same isnt it? Socialists that I encounter online are usually young students who have never been out in the real world- they live a sheltered existence and they think their theories are the answer to everything. It sure as heck doesnt last when cold hard reality finally hits them in the face years later. ;)
 
LOL yeah its always the same isnt it? Socialists that I encounter online are usually young students who have never been out in the real world- they live a sheltered existence and they think their theories are the answer to everything. It sure as heck doesnt last when cold hard reality finally hits them in the face years later. ;)

Sounds like most college libertarians yelling about how sexy the unregulated free market is and how it gives them massive wood without taking a history class or looking at the world. Talking crap about either side without presenting an actual argument does nothing.
 
Yeah, I think the way Lenin/Mao/etc wanted to do things was a horrible idea, but I can understand the logic behind it. The issue is, stripping the powers includes screwing almost all of the population, I mean, the state does a **** ton of things that are already put in place and maintained by the state, it'd be a very very slow conversion, or immediate and violent.

Think of how people approach the state and how they defend its laws from any opposition. You can't take a people that worship the state to varying degrees and just turn off the machine nor can you empower the machine and expect they will like it less. You have to approach the topic in steps and slowly dismantle their attachment to the state, and then and only then eliminate it.
 
Think of how people approach the state and how they defend its laws from any opposition. You can't take a people that worship the state to varying degrees and just turn off the machine nor can you empower the machine and expect they will like it less. You have to approach the topic in steps and slowly dismantle their attachment to the state, and then and only then eliminate it.

I can agree to an extent, in the future this would seem more viable, if we the people found ways to take over things the state had been doing in an efficient way, I believe we can, maybe.. Question though, are you an anarcho-capitalist? You want to abolish the state, and seem to support capitalism.
Anarcho-capitalism (also referred to as free-market anarchism,[2] market anarchism,[3] private-property anarchism,[4] libertarian anarchism[5]) is a political philosophy which advocates the elimination of the state in favor of individual sovereignty, private property, and open markets (laissez-faire capitalism).
 
Sounds like most college libertarians yelling about how sexy the unregulated free market is and how it gives them massive wood without taking a history class or looking at the world. Talking crap about either side without presenting an actual argument does nothing.

it's true that young people are barely acquainted with reality...no matter what ideology they adhere to.

us older libertarians are very much friends with reality, though. :cool:
( the "free market" doesn't give me wood... I'm only turned on by things that actually exist)
 
I can agree to an extent, in the future this would seem more viable, if we the people found ways to take over things the state had been doing in an efficient way, I believe we can, maybe.. Question though, are you an anarcho-capitalist? You want to abolish the state, and seem to support capitalism.

Yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist. The thing I have noticed about communists is that they are impatient and want it all right now, so they empower the state in their attempt to get that change right this very moment without even realizing they are giving the state everything it needs to completely control everyone.
 
it's true that young people are barely acquainted with reality...no matter what ideology they adhere to.

us older libertarians are very much friends with reality, though. :cool:
( the "free market" doesn't give me wood... I'm only turned on by things that actually exist)

What about older socialists? Communists? Are you automatically the only one in reality?
 
Yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist. The thing I have noticed about communists is that they are impatient and want it all right now, so they empower the state in their attempt to get that change right this very moment without even realizing they are giving the state everything it needs to completely control everyone.

Most communists today advocate peaceful methods, at least from what I've seen. Jesus, you're really an anarcho capitalist? I don't see how it is possible at all without countless people suffering (sounds like today..) but to each his own.
 
Most communists today advocate peaceful methods, at least from what I've seen. Jesus, you're really an anarcho capitalist? I don't see how it is possible at all without countless people suffering (sounds like today..) but to each his own.

It's nice to know communists are learning.

Yes, I'm really an anarcho capitalist. Why would people suffer?
 
What about older socialists? Communists? Are you automatically the only one in reality?

we're not the only ones in reality, there are other ideologies firmly rooted in reality.

socialism and communism aren't counted among us, but we're certainly not alone.

older socialists/communists pretty much exist only in academia... where they poison young impressionable minds with their fairy tales of a utopia that cannot and will not exist on earth while it's inhabited by humans..
if it were not for academia, they would starve and cease to exist..... or become capitalists :cool:.
 
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