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Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious belief?

Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious belief?


  • Total voters
    19
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

And one more thing - what religion requires its adherents to open stores at all? If a religion says "don't do business with such and such a group", then don't have that kind of business to begin with. For instance, my own religion forbids gay marriage...but there is NOTHING in the Bible that says, "Don't do business with gay people". Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we must not do business with sinners in general.
I am pretty sure the bible does not say you can be an accomplice is someone's sin. Jesus didn't buy the prostitute some hooker clothes, nor did he help the tax collector invent new ways of screwing people out of their money.

snip...

In other words, the ones who are refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple because of their "Christian" beliefs need to go back and learn what the Bible does say...and what the Bible does not say.

So if I had a bakery, sure, I'd bake them that cake - it's their money, and the fact that I'm selling that cake to them is no more supportive of gay marriage than selling guns is supportive of murder.

Selling a regular cake and selling a gun to someone is one thing.Someone telling you they need a gay wedding cake or they want a gun to kill their neighbor,ex-wife,husband or whoever is a totally different thing and it makes you an accomplices in the gay wedding and the murder .
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

I am pretty sure the bible does not say you can be an accomplice is someone's sin. Jesus didn't buy the prostitute some hooker clothes, nor did he help the tax collector invent new ways of screwing people out of their money.

snip...

In other words, the ones who are refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple because of their "Christian" beliefs need to go back and learn what the Bible does say...and what the Bible does not say.



Selling a regular cake and selling a gun to someone is one thing.Someone telling you they need a gay wedding cake or they want a gun to kill their neighbor,ex-wife,husband or whoever is a totally different thing and it makes you an accomplices in the gay wedding and the murder .

We don't care about all that. America isn't governed by the bible.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Then they should refuse all marriages - you can't say "well, these marriages are okay, but not those other ones". It's not right to agree to refuse to sell a product to someone based on choices that are a direct result of that customer's biological traits..
When you finally grasp the idea that YES, homosexuality is something that people are BORN with (if to differing degrees), then you'll finally find yourself on the road out of the conservative echo chamber

When you find a gay gene then you can make that claim.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

We don't care about all that. America isn't governed by the bible.

We as a country may not be governed by the bible.But at the same time the government can not interfere in someone exercising their religion.Plus this post was in response to someone trying to claim that the bible allows someone to be an accomplice to someone's sin. I realize that if you are an atheist or a phony religious person then the bible to you is no different than a harry potter book.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Business != person. That is, businesses do not have a brain, nor a conscience. Your premise starts out wrong and makes it an impossible question to answer.

Exactly. That is why all individuals should be allowed their own freedom of choice. The business is a tool among other things, and if the owner of a tool does not want to use it for purposes they find objectionable they should not have to.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

The company is property of the person who owns it. I could have asked "Should a person be forced to sell or rent his property and or services to groups or individuals or groups whose views go against their religious values or conscience. "But I would not have been able to squeeze all that in poll options.

The reason I mentioned it was the difference it makes in these cases. A business can be a legal person or not. The consequences can be quite different in these cases.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

I am pretty sure the bible does not say you can be an accomplice is someone's sin. Jesus didn't buy the prostitute some hooker clothes, nor did he help the tax collector invent new ways of screwing people out of their money.

snip...

In other words, the ones who are refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple because of their "Christian" beliefs need to go back and learn what the Bible does say...and what the Bible does not say.



Selling a regular cake and selling a gun to someone is one thing.Someone telling you they need a gay wedding cake or they want a gun to kill their neighbor,ex-wife,husband or whoever is a totally different thing and it makes you an accomplices in the gay wedding and the murder .

I'll give you that I gave a poor example, so let's broaden the scope a bit. If you're "Christian" and you refuse to sell stuff that you believe will be used by this or that person for sinful purposes, what the heck CAN you sell? Not much. I sell airline tickets, so if I were to do as that bakery couple says, then if a man comes into my store and says he wants a plane ticket so he can go back and marry his girlfriend in a heathen religion, then I must not sell tickets to him...for what he is doing is very much a sin in the eyes of God.

AGAIN, homosexuality is something that people are (to varying degrees (hence those who are 'bi')) BORN with. It's very easy for you to prove to yourself: let a Chippendale's stripper come to your private home and strip for you. Would you be sexually attracted to him? No? And that in and of itself shows you that one's sexual preferences is NOT a matter of choice, because just as you can't force yourself to be sexually attracted to that male stripper, someone who is full-on gay can't force himself to be sexually attracted to women. It's a BIOLOGICAL thing, just as are color, height, type of hair, whatever.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

There is no difference between a "gay" marriage and a marriage besides the genders of the people involved. You are discriminating against people based merely on their sexuality. I understand if some really evil people don't want to perpetuate the idea that we should all respect and love each other, regardless of stupid crap like being grossed out by anal sex, but I'd like to think that we don't make laws based on the wishes of really evil people.

Public accommodation laws don't deal with contracts between businesses, which is what dealing with an organization like the KKK or NRA would fall under. You can't deny service to a member of such a group who walks into your store, but organizations don't go to stores. Laws are a lot more complicated than "my pet causes aren't getting special treatment so... discrimination!!"

Unless the NRA and KKK as groups are selling products and services they are no more a business than a group of people trying to get married.Again organizations are people.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Here's the problem I have with the poll, you list along with gays, Hitler and the KKK. Being gay harms NO ONE.

Unless you are the militant variety and use your status as a weapon to punish those who disagree with you. Then you deserve the repercussions.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

I'll give you that I gave a poor example, so let's broaden the scope a bit. If you're "Christian" and you refuse to sell stuff that you believe will be used by this or that person for sinful purposes, what the heck CAN you sell? Not much. I sell airline tickets, so if I were to do as that bakery couple says, then if a man comes into my store and says he wants a plane ticket so he can go back and marry his girlfriend in a heathen religion, then I must not sell tickets to him...for what he is doing is very much a sin in the eyes of God.

.
If you want to sell someone a plane ticket so that they can marry someone in a heathen region or you want to perform perform a gay wedding or something related to that wedding then that is your choice.However the government should not force you to sell or rent your property and or services to those people if you believe that heathen and gay weddings violate your religious belief of conscience.

AGAIN, homosexuality is something that people are (to varying degrees (hence those who are 'bi')) BORN with. It's very easy for you to prove to yourself: let a Chippendale's stripper come to your private home and strip for you. Would you be sexually attracted to him? No? And that in and of itself shows you that one's sexual preferences is NOT a matter of choice, because just as you can't force yourself to be sexually attracted to that male stripper, someone who is full-on gay can't force himself to be sexually attracted to women. It's a BIOLOGICAL thing, just as are color, height, type of hair, whatever

Again, until scientist prove there is a gay gene this claim that someone is born a homosexual is nonsense.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Everyone knows Nazis hate birthday cake, so your question is invalid.

It's not that they hate birthday cake, it's just that all the ovens were being used at the time.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Unless the NRA and KKK as groups are selling products and services they are no more a business than a group of people trying to get married.Again organizations are people.

Even if organizations were people (they aren't, it's WAY more complicated than Romney's little slogan), organizations have no traits. They have no gender, no race, no sexuality, no religion, no nationality, nothing. They are completely blank slates, and thus cannot be discriminated against. Discrimination is about identity, not ideas. Ideas get subject to the marketplace. People don't.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Even if organizations were people (they aren't, it's WAY more complicated than Romney's little slogan), organizations have no traits. They have no gender, no race, no sexuality, no religion, no nationality, nothing. They are completely blank slates, and thus cannot be discriminated against. .

The people that make up those organizations most certainly can certainly have traits.

Discrimination is about identity, not ideas.

Gay marriage is an idea not an identity.

Ideas get subject to the marketplace. People don't

Your idea that two men marry each other or that two women can marry each other is an idea not a person
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

I voted across the board for business owners to have the ability to refuse service to anyone. That said why in the hell would you? After all you are in business to make money, not to spread the gospel, not to talk about who you have sex with, Etc.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

I voted across the board for business owners to have the ability to refuse service to anyone. That said why in the hell would you? After all you are in business to make money, not to spread the gospel, not to talk about who you have sex with, Etc.

Not everyone is willing to sell out his moral values in order to maximize his profits.
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Not everyone is willing to sell out his moral values in order to maximize his profits.

That's up to the individual business owner I suppose. As long as I am treating people the way I want to be treated I will leave the judgement up to their maker. I don't believe a business should be forced to cater to anyone they don't want to or support any idea or agenda their particular religion is against. In my business I won't turn away anyone. I'm not going to ask who you sleep with or who you pray to and I don't expect you to tell me that info.

Why do people feel the need to give all that private info out in the first place?
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

That's up to the individual business owner I suppose. As long as I am treating people the way I want to be treated I will leave the judgement up to their maker. I don't believe a business should be forced to cater to anyone they don't want to or support any idea or agenda their particular religion is against. In my business I won't turn away anyone.

If you are asked, in exchange for a fee, to directly participate in something that you believe is immoral, you wouldn't turn that custom away?

So to you, money matters more than moral standards?
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

If you are asked, in exchange for a fee, to directly participate in something that you believe is immoral, you wouldn't turn that custom away?

So to you, money matters more than moral standards?

No money is not the most important thing to me, but it is very important to my business. I keep my business and my personal beliefs separate. I don't hold any ill will towards a business that doesn't. I just have a hard time understanding why you would be in the business of turning away money for your service. Isn't that the primary role of being in business, to make money?
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

No money is not the most important thing to me, but it is very important to my business. I keep my business and my personal beliefs separate.

So, you have no problem, then, running your business in a manner that you personally would find to be immoral? Your morals and ethics apply only to your personal life and not to how you conduct your business?
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

Since when do inanimate objects have religious beliefs
 
Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

So, you have no problem, then, running your business in a manner that you personally would find to be immoral? Your morals and ethics apply only to your personal life and not to how you conduct your business?

As long as my business is run within the confines of the law then I am not sure how I could be put into a position of immorality. I didn't build my business around my personal beliefs and do not run it that way.

I understand not wanting to cater a gay wedding if It was against my religion, which is why I agree with businesses being able to refuse service. I think I would find a way to provide the service and still not cater it. Either by contracting it out or negotiating with the clients.
 
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