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Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?


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Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

The problem is that you're not actually showing, as you probably believe that you do, how this is an American or European interest. But rather what you're doing is emphasizing why Israel receives unfair attention - hypocritical even - among Western citizens and leaders and why it is so wrong that the focus on Israel is always so ridiculously disproportional when hundreds are murdered in places like Syria every bloody day yet people concern themselves about 300 houses that are being built for some Jewish families in some hell hole in the West Bank.

Those who oppose Israel constantly and who are known as "anti-Israeli" 'criticize' Israel due to irrational hatred burning within them towards the Jewish state, how else can you explain the fact that these people believe Israel should receive thousands of rockets on its cities without taking any military action against the terrorists? These are a group of people who believe that Israel has no right to self-defense and falsely claim that it targets civilians for murder. In any other nation's case, US for example, who knows what would be the reply to thousands of rockets that are constantly launched at your civilians, even if you have advanced defense systems that minimize casualties such as those Israel has you have to react with a military operation. So the claim that Israel 'loses support' during such operations when in reality the only thing that happens is that these anti-Israelis are screaming louder is not at all accurate.

Regarding Netanyahu's comments - he didn't reject his support for the two-states solution, all he's done is to say that it's not going to happen during his term because the Palestinians have made it clear that they're not willing to accept his conditions, the ones from 2009 in the speech at the Bar Ilan University where he had stated that he endorses the two-states solution. Even Obama admitted that this is all he said in his recent speech with the leader of Afghanistan. The amount of lies that are surrounding Israel when it comes to "news" is ridiculous, and the amount of people who believe these lies are way more.

So to return to the subject no, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict does not constitute an interest for either the US or the European nations.
A national interest is something that benefits your nation, not something that you are interested in as a person.

I see your points but I differ. Addressing and solving this issue can remove one less irritant between the West and Muslim Govts.
Each countries interest for lack of a better phase, on a scale. Critical to non critical and the 2 State solution is in there. Not at the top, but still in the US and Wests interests.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

So let me define it not rely on Netanyahu to speak for me (which he doesn't). Approximately 20% of Israel today are Arabs. They should have the full rights, like any citizen of the state.
Yes I agree.

The real issue is the "right of return" which if you take Abbas at his word would mean Palestinians would control both of the two state solution, thus really a one state solution. My sense is that is what you want as well,
I believe that all those who were displaced should have the option to return to their homeland. They should have that option. Does that mean they all will take that option? Doubtful. Hell, "An independent poll conducted in 2003 with the Palestinian populations of Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Lebanon showed that the majority (54%) would accept a financial compensation and a place to live in West Bank or Gaza in place of returning to the exact place in modern-day Israel where they or their ancestors lived (this possibility of settlement is contemplated in the Resolution 194).Only 10% said they would live in Israel if given the option." Palestinian refugees | World Public Library - eBooks | Read eBooks online

perhaps not. You can let us know.
No I do believe that. Nor do I think it would "destroy Israel".
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

So let me define it not rely on Netanyahu to speak for me (which he doesn't). Approximately 20% of Israel today are Arabs. They should have the full rights, like any citizen of the state. The real issue is the "right of return" which if you take Abbas at his word would mean Palestinians would control both of the two state solution, thus really a one state solution. My sense is that is what you want as well, perhaps not. You can let us know.

Abbas already let go of the ROR. Israel building new settlements does not help the situation it inflames the issue.
Some will say,Israel returned Gaza and what are we facing but continuous wars. And their point is right. Turning over part of a State (sections of the WB), with the implicit understanding that the Palestinian Govt must address all security issues.
But the 67 borders will never happen. Israel must have secure borders. But that will entail certain settlements being returned to Palestine.
Palestine must also have free passage within their State, not a State that is chopped up like swiss cheese. Where they would become economically dependent upon Israel.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Not from the United States, but diverging from an anti-Semitic, evil-appeasing White House and its minions.



Where's this Administration's demand that the Palestinians stop supporting terrorist groups like Hamas which call for the destruction of Israel?

The problem with this Administration and their sycophants is that they're Biblically-challenged and fail to recognize that God reestablished the nation of Israel (Ezekiel chapters 37-38, etc.), and that when you go up against Israel, you're going up against God Almighty.

You watch - Israel will not be defeated or forced into a bad deal like what Obama is doing with Iran.

Did he provide a map of Israel? Cannot find it in the Bible?
Can you provide a rough date for when this occurred?
And yep, I am a Christian.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Yes I agree.


I believe that all those who were displaced should have the option to return to their homeland. They should have that option. Does that mean they all will take that option? Doubtful. Hell, "An independent poll conducted in 2003 with the Palestinian populations of Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Lebanon showed that the majority (54%) would accept a financial compensation and a place to live in West Bank or Gaza in place of returning to the exact place in modern-day Israel where they or their ancestors lived (this possibility of settlement is contemplated in the Resolution 194).Only 10% said they would live in Israel if given the option." Palestinian refugees | World Public Library - eBooks | Read eBooks online


No I do believe that. Nor do I think it would "destroy Israel".
I disagree, the vast majority left on the orders of Arabs.
They left on their own volition, expecting to reap the harvest of an Israeli genocide conducted by the Armies and Govts attacking the new State, no ROR.
They left, my opinion, **** them.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Yes I agree.

I believe that all those who were displaced should have the option to return to their homeland. They should have that option. Does that mean they all will take that option? Doubtful. Hell, "An independent poll conducted in 2003 with the Palestinian populations of Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Lebanon showed that the majority (54%) would accept a financial compensation and a place to live in West Bank or Gaza in place of returning to the exact place in modern-day Israel where they or their ancestors lived (this possibility of settlement is contemplated in the Resolution 194).Only 10% said they would live in Israel if given the option." Palestinian refugees | World Public Library - eBooks | Read eBooks online
No I do believe that. Nor do I think it would "destroy Israel".
Despite there now being 5 MILLION 'palestinian' 'refugees', (out to a 4th Gen) almost NONE of the original 700,000 Survive.

There is NO "Right of Return" for them, nor for others (ie, Millions of 1947 India/Pak partitioners, or 2 Million 1945 Sudeten Germans)

And of course, due to their population Explosion, Most would have had to move a few miles anyway.
NO FURTHER than they live now!
So let's just make them citizens-in-place of wherever they are: the Same/Next NON-descript Arid hill in 'paleshtein' or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon. It's not like they're exiled in Iceland.
The same way All other post WWII refugees got absorbed.
 
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Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Israel has the same right to exist as any other nation, but the principle of an ethno-religious state is inherently at odds with democracy within a multi-cultural society. This is nothing new, is not anti-Semitic, and has been a source of debate within Israel as it struggles to square it's Jewish identity with the realities of existing as a democracy.
Many, perhaps Most states are 'ethno-religious'.

In fact, the Newest Countries ARE for the SAME reason Israel was/is.
South Sudan and the Balkan separation happened, mercifully, because separate groups that could not get along.

Israel was Partitioned (as opposed to an earlier promise to the Jews for the whole thing) because Arabs Objected.
So an Arab and a Jewish state were created.
The Arabs refused this shared-land agreement and went to war.

So Israel was Specifically created AS a homeland FOR the Jews!
That, unlike say the USA, Was it's Purpose.
Nonetheless, it's Arab Citizens are treated as well as minorities in most states. They don't flee to any of the neighboring Arab paradises.

Several dozen other Countries offer priority in immigration for their Ethnic Nationals as well.
 
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Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Haha what? Slavery? What does being critical of right-wing Israeli policy have to do with slavery? This defies even your own bizarre use of conflation.



Which has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China and everything to do with your messages.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Yes I agree.


I believe that all those who were displaced should have the option to return to their homeland. They should have that option. Does that mean they all will take that option? Doubtful. Hell, "An independent poll conducted in 2003 with the Palestinian populations of Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Lebanon showed that the majority (54%) would accept a financial compensation and a place to live in West Bank or Gaza in place of returning to the exact place in modern-day Israel where they or their ancestors lived (this possibility of settlement is contemplated in the Resolution 194).Only 10% said they would live in Israel if given the option." Palestinian refugees | World Public Library - eBooks | Read eBooks online


No I do believe that. Nor do I think it would "destroy Israel".

If you message is anything but anti-Semitic bigotry about "right to return," post a link to ANY message you have posted of the "right to return" of the Tartars of Crimea. Or the "right of return" of any peoples anywhere else in the world.

I'm going to guess you've never posted such a message. Am I correct?

Increasingly Democrats are following Obama's lead with outright grotesque bigotry against Jews and Israel. Unlike Muslim countries, Israel has a LARGE percentage of non-Jews, where Muslim theocratic countries do NOT have a large percentage of non-Muslims.

I understand what you want. You want 5 million non-Jews in Israel so it is no longer a Jewish country - your own version of how you want the only Jewish nation in the world eliminated. Why not just call it what it is, the age old bigotry and hatred of Jews?

No, you do not want to destroy Israel. You want to destroy Israel as a Jewish country - clearly that is your goal. And a goal shared by hundreds of millions of other people.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Finding a website that agrees with you is not research. Just below your google search was this link which you chose not to follow. Iran's Ballistic Missile Program | The Iran Primer

The Saudi's support anyone who will oppose Iranian takeover of the majority of the Middle East. They'll have to wait for our next presidential election to find an Ally in the US.

I don't appreciate your condescension and snarky tone. I find your comments to be marginally relevant and slanted toward those of the administration which are frankly stupid.

Well, perhaps if you act like you want to be treated then maybe you will. But as it stands, you're quite condescending yourself.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Abbas already let go of the ROR. Israel building new settlements does not help the situation it inflames the issue.
Some will say,Israel returned Gaza and what are we facing but continuous wars. And their point is right. Turning over part of a State (sections of the WB), with the implicit understanding that the Palestinian Govt must address all security issues.
But the 67 borders will never happen. Israel must have secure borders. But that will entail certain settlements being returned to Palestine.
Palestine must also have free passage within their State, not a State that is chopped up like swiss cheese. Where they would become economically dependent upon Israel.

I agree that settlements have to be returned in the West Bank . Not sure about your contiguous state comment. If you mean Gaza and the West Bank, they were always separated. If you mean within the West Bank I agree. Maybe it should be a three state solution. Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.

My thought was that Israel should have stated that Gaza was an independent state as soon as they left.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

If you message is anything but anti-Semitic bigotry about "right to return," post a link to ANY message you have posted of the "right to return" of the Tartars of Crimea. Or the "right of return" of any peoples anywhere else in the world.
What? Are you accusing me of being anti-Semitic?

I'm going to guess you've never posted such a message. Am I correct?
I have stated in several threads throughout here that if a community is forced out of their homeland by war or conflict that they have the right to return back to their homeland.

Increasingly Democrats are following Obama's lead with outright grotesque bigotry against Jews and Israel.
What are you talking about?

Unlike Muslim countries, Israel has a LARGE percentage of non-Jews, where Muslim theocratic countries do NOT have a large percentage of non-Muslims.
And thats great... Dont see how this at all relates to this.. .


I understand what you want. You want 5 million non-Jews in Israel so it is no longer a Jewish country - your own version of how you want the only Jewish nation in the world eliminated.
Baseless accusations against me.

Why not just call it what it is, the age old bigotry and hatred of Jews?
Well I dont hate Jews....

No, you do not want to destroy Israel. You want to destroy Israel as a Jewish country - clearly that is your goal. And a goal shared by hundreds of millions of other people.
So you essentially have just moved your argument to baseless accusations.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I agree that settlements have to be returned in the West Bank . Not sure about your contiguous state comment. If you mean Gaza and the West Bank, they were always separated. If you mean within the West Bank I agree. Maybe it should be a three state solution. Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.

My thought was that Israel should have stated that Gaza was an independent state as soon as they left.

Upon agreeing should Israel then declare war due to the attacks?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

What? Are you accusing me of being anti-Semitic?


I have stated in several threads throughout here that if a community is forced out of their homeland by war or conflict that they have the right to return back to their homeland.


What are you talking about?


And thats great... Dont see how this at all relates to this.. .



Baseless accusations against me.


Well I dont hate Jews....


So you essentially have just moved your argument to baseless accusations.

Really? Link to any message of your advocacy of any other particular group's right to return? You didn't do so. Thus, you have to explain your fixation against only Israel specifically.

The effect of what you want is obvious - to make Jews the minority in Israel as that would be the effect. Why deny your own advocacy?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I agree that settlements have to be returned in the West Bank . Not sure about your contiguous state comment. If you mean Gaza and the West Bank, they were always separated. If you mean within the West Bank I agree. Maybe it should be a three state solution. Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.

My thought was that Israel should have stated that Gaza was an independent state as soon as they left.

Israel of 8,000 square miles of the 57,000,000 square miles of land on earth. Why won't you or anyone else specify how much smaller they want Israel and it's defensive zone to be? 5,000 square miles? 1,000 square miles? 1 square mile?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Really? Link to any message of your advocacy of any other particular group's right to return? You didn't do so. Thus, you have to explain your fixation against only Israel specifically.
Last I checked this thread is about Israel....

The effect of what you want is obvious - to make Jews the minority in Israel as that would be the effect.
My argument has nothing to do with who is the majority or minority population of the state of Israel..

Why deny your own advocacy?
Thats not my "advocacy". Your making a lot of false accusations, and making a lot of false statements about what I believe...
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Upon agreeing should Israel then declare war due to the attacks?

They would certainly have that right. Take away the facade of "occupation" from Hamas and Israel should be allowed to do what every other nation on the planet is. Protecting its citizens from attack is the basic precept of any government.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Israel of 8,000 square miles of the 57,000,000 square miles of land on earth. Why won't you or anyone else specify how much smaller they want Israel and it's defensive zone to be? 5,000 square miles? 1,000 square miles? 1 square mile?

I don't want it smaller at all. From the time of the 67 war, I wish that Israel was able to pull back to defensible borders and stop there. I don't think most Israelis want to hold onto most of the West Bank.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I agree that settlements have to be returned in the West Bank . Not sure about your contiguous state comment. If you mean Gaza and the West Bank, they were always separated. If you mean within the West Bank I agree. Maybe it should be a three state solution. Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.

My thought was that Israel should have stated that Gaza was an independent state as soon as they left.

No, Gaza would not be part of a contiguous State.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

So Israel was Specifically created AS a homeland FOR the Jews!
That, unlike say the USA, Was it's Purpose.

I'm not sure what that means in practical terms.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China and everything to do with your messages.

You calling me an anti-Semite is meaningless, because you've set the bar for the accusation so low that anyone to the left of the Likud party is an anti-Semite. Jews and non-Jews alike.

Anti-Semitism is real, and you flagrantly tossing out accusations to Netanyahu opponents hurts the Jewish people you claim to support. When true anti-Semitism appears, no one will listen.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Which is exactly what the current GOP and its divisive actions to say the very least is after, the 75% of Jewish-Americans who vote for Democrats.
At least you admit the strategy behind the GOP actions .



The question is:

"What is the strategy behind the actions of the Big 0?"

He doesn't seem to be a very good ally. First the Ukraine, under the protection of the US and a treaty is abandoned and now Israel.

Being a US Ally seems like a very bad strategic move while the Big 0 is at the controls of state.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

The question is:

"What is the strategy behind the actions of the Big 0?"

He doesn't seem to be a very good ally. First the Ukraine, under the protection of the US and a treaty is abandoned and now Israel.

Being a US Ally seems like a very bad strategic move while the Big 0 is at the controls of state.

And how was Ukraine "under the protection of the US"?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Not from the United States, but diverging from an anti-Semitic, evil-appeasing White House and its minions.

:2rofll:

Man you people and that anti-Semitic crap. Please, give me a break.
 
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