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Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?


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Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

First of all if you believe the fact that the UN, US and EU involve themselves tirelessly with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict somehow implies it is an interest of either the US or the EU then you couldn't be more wrong. Secondly the above involvement was the same in the recent what? 30 years? It isn't the result of Netanyahu's statement if that's what you're implying. And finally, the actions promoted in the international facilities of the United Nations are not in support of the two-states solution, which is the only possible solution, but of a unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state that is not the result of negotiations and thus will not lead to peace. These actions must always be rejected by the US and never will be accepted by Israel, and the only thing the people who promote these United Nations resolutions are really promoting is yet more bloodshed, not peace as they are either misled to believe or misleading others to believe in the case of the Palestinians themselves.

So no, solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not an American interest and not a European interest. It grants them absolutely nothing. An interest is something that benefits your nation, and since the Israeli-Palestinian conflict effects only Israel and the Palestinians then only these two must see peace as a national interest. It will not "bring stability to the entire Middle East" as the delusional would claim and it will not minimize the bloodshed in the region since the amount of people who die due to this conflict on a daily average is nothing compared to places like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc. So once again the fact that European and American administrations pay great attention to this conflict does not mean it somehow became a national interest of theirs as you were falsely claiming, so next time you're about to claim I'm avoiding reality you should do a reality check with yourself, first.

Every time there is a war in Gaza, regardless of how justified Israel is in engaging Hamas, in the end they lose support in the West.
Each and every time support in the end for a Palestinian State increases.
People can die by the 10’s of thousands as they are in Syria and other countries, and people nod off.
They do not nod off in regards to this conflict.
Support comes from the respective populations on their Govt. to act
It did not suddenly appear, it has been growing for years in the EU.
Bibi did a world of harm to Israel by stating he did not support a 2 Sate Solution, then backtracking with a clarification. The damage was done.

Have the Palestinians thrown away perfect opportunities to settle this. Yes.
Have they also thrown up roadblocks yes they have.

Has Israel done the same under Bibi, yes imho.
It used to be recognition of Israel was a demand, reasonable, that changed to recognizing Israel as a Jewish State. Why did that change?
20 % of the population is Arab. What are they, 2nd rate citizens?
A 2 State solution does benefit the US & EU- they rid themselves of a perennial problem, war, truce, rebuild, war, truce, rebuild.

And if a deal is ever finalized, Israel must retain the right to pursue any who attack from that new state.
And we have differing views on this.
I can live with that.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Every time there is a war in Gaza, regardless of how justified Israel is in engaging Hamas, in the end they lose support in the West.
Each and every time support in the end for a Palestinian State increases.
People can die by the 10’s of thousands as they are in Syria and other countries, and people nod off.
They do not nod off in regards to this conflict.
Support comes from the respective populations on their Govt. to act
It did not suddenly appear, it has been growing for years in the EU.
Bibi did a world of harm to Israel by stating he did not support a 2 Sate Solution, then backtracking with a clarification. The damage was done.

Have the Palestinians thrown away perfect opportunities to settle this. Yes.
Have they also thrown up roadblocks yes they have.

Has Israel done the same under Bibi, yes imho.
It used to be recognition of Israel was a demand, reasonable, that changed to recognizing Israel as a Jewish State. Why did that change?
20 % of the population is Arab. What are they, 2nd rate citizens?
A 2 State solution does benefit the US & EU- they rid themselves of a perennial problem, war, truce, rebuild, war, truce, rebuild.

And if a deal is ever finalized, Israel must retain the right to pursue any who attack from that new state.
And we have differing views on this.
I can live with that.

Bibi's long term position was placating the Us/West, with support for the Palestinian State. He told the truth the day before his election, got the nudge and went straight back to his prior position the day after. Everybody has seen this for exactly what it was.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Every time there is a war in Gaza, regardless of how justified Israel is in engaging Hamas, in the end they lose support in the West.
Each and every time support in the end for a Palestinian State increases.
People can die by the 10’s of thousands as they are in Syria and other countries, and people nod off.
They do not nod off in regards to this conflict.
Support comes from the respective populations on their Govt. to act
It did not suddenly appear, it has been growing for years in the EU.
Bibi did a world of harm to Israel by stating he did not support a 2 Sate Solution, then backtracking with a clarification. The damage was done.

Have the Palestinians thrown away perfect opportunities to settle this. Yes.
Have they also thrown up roadblocks yes they have.

Has Israel done the same under Bibi, yes imho.
It used to be recognition of Israel was a demand, reasonable, that changed to recognizing Israel as a Jewish State. Why did that change?
20 % of the population is Arab. What are they, 2nd rate citizens?
A 2 State solution does benefit the US & EU- they rid themselves of a perennial problem, war, truce, rebuild, war, truce, rebuild.

And if a deal is ever finalized, Israel must retain the right to pursue any who attack from that new state.
And we have differing views on this.
I can live with that.

The problem is that you're not actually showing, as you probably believe that you do, how this is an American or European interest. But rather what you're doing is emphasizing why Israel receives unfair attention - hypocritical even - among Western citizens and leaders and why it is so wrong that the focus on Israel is always so ridiculously disproportional when hundreds are murdered in places like Syria every bloody day yet people concern themselves about 300 houses that are being built for some Jewish families in some hell hole in the West Bank.

Those who oppose Israel constantly and who are known as "anti-Israeli" 'criticize' Israel due to irrational hatred burning within them towards the Jewish state, how else can you explain the fact that these people believe Israel should receive thousands of rockets on its cities without taking any military action against the terrorists? These are a group of people who believe that Israel has no right to self-defense and falsely claim that it targets civilians for murder. In any other nation's case, US for example, who knows what would be the reply to thousands of rockets that are constantly launched at your civilians, even if you have advanced defense systems that minimize casualties such as those Israel has you have to react with a military operation. So the claim that Israel 'loses support' during such operations when in reality the only thing that happens is that these anti-Israelis are screaming louder is not at all accurate.

Regarding Netanyahu's comments - he didn't reject his support for the two-states solution, all he's done is to say that it's not going to happen during his term because the Palestinians have made it clear that they're not willing to accept his conditions, the ones from 2009 in the speech at the Bar Ilan University where he had stated that he endorses the two-states solution. Even Obama admitted that this is all he said in his recent speech with the leader of Afghanistan. The amount of lies that are surrounding Israel when it comes to "news" is ridiculous, and the amount of people who believe these lies are way more.

So to return to the subject no, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict does not constitute an interest for either the US or the European nations.
A national interest is something that benefits your nation, not something that you are interested in as a person.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

No, it is not supporting Israel but supporting Bibi Netanyahu and his Likud party that is the litmus test for republicans. If you don't adore Bibi and everything he says and does, you will most likely not get the votes from the die hard republican primary voters. You may have a better shot at the elected office of president if you would support all of Israel and all political leaders and not just the one IMHO like it seems is now the case among the applause happy republicans in the house and congress right now.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Why are EU countries cutting the diplomatic cord with the US on the 2 State Policy?
Because according to Bibi it will not happen.
So you will see more diplomatic relations between EU countries and Palestine- you will see selective trade sanctions imposed on Israel by EU countries.
You will see Palestine admitted to more UN committees –orgs.
You will eventually see a motion on the UN floor recognizing the State of Palestine.
Now Israel can get in front of the parade and provide direction, or follow at the end and be reactive.

If you think this is a not serious matter that does not impact the US and other countries, you are avoiding reality.

European Parliament passes motion in favor of Palestine recognition - Diplomacy and Defense - Israel News | Haaretz!



General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine



International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Europe hating Jews is as predictable and historic as it gets, isn't it?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

If, however, there is a Palestinian state (as you assert), how exactly will he prevent one? If it already exists, there isn't much he can do.



You're right.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

The Obama Administration has not backed away from that claim.

Is it possible that this is still considered to be a triumph of his policy because this is the result his policy is designed to create?

We may think he's failing because we assume he's working to achieve the goals that we hold. What if he's working toward a different set of goals entirely?

His foreign policy may be unpublished and entirely successful.

Congratulations on the greatest display of wishful thinking I've read in decades. Universally everyone who is not a radical islamist supporter believes that keeping Iran out of the nuclear community is a giant step toward world peace. Obama's plan is to allow them to enrich uranium. The Saudi's now want nuclear weapons. The Iranians characterize his negotiation team as helpful and conciliatory. In Egypt the government he supported, the Muslim Brotherhood, was overthrown in a year. I ran into an Egyptian guy today and he is very happy with this turn of events. The spread of radical Islam is spreading in the Middle Ease and Africa. If this is his goal, he is successful. Personally, I wish he would stop being so successful and help make the world a more peaceful place.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I don't understand why any Jew is still voting Democrat.
Which is exactly what the current GOP and its divisive actions to say the very least is after, the 75% of Jewish-Americans who vote for Democrats.
At least you admit the strategy behind the GOP actions .
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Congratulations on the greatest display of wishful thinking I've read in decades. Universally everyone who is not a radical islamist supporter believes that keeping Iran out of the nuclear community is a giant step toward world peace. Obama's plan is to allow them to enrich uranium.
Almost the entire world agrees that Iran has a right to have nuclear power....but not nuclear weapons. Do you know the difference between nuclear power and nuclear weapons?

The Saudi's now want nuclear weapons. The Iranians characterize his negotiation team as helpful and conciliatory. In Egypt the government he supported, the Muslim Brotherhood, was overthrown in a year. I ran into an Egyptian guy today and he is very happy with this turn of events. The spread of radical Islam is spreading in the Middle Ease and Africa. If this is his goal, he is successful. Personally, I wish he would stop being so successful and help make the world a more peaceful place.
The Saudi's instigated and funded the military coup that overthrew the democratically elected government in Egypt because they didn't want any Islamic government in the ME except theirs. You know Saudi Arabia is not a democracy, right?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

It is hard for many to get their heads around the fact that democrats would really allow Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish state.

This is one of the most blatant and irrational lies I've ever seen on debate politics.
That Democrats would really allow Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish state--are you really ****ing serious!?

As a mod/con Democrat, I completely resent your characterization of me out of hand and dismiss your slightly liberal lean as a phony lie.
You have never posted slightly liberal in anything I've ever seen you say.

You are just like the rest of the GOP--expanding on the very worst of the Nixon days with your divide and conquer lies.
With just one addition from me--GOPs never supported Israel like the Democrats did throughout the time of Nixon, Reagan, or either Bush.

Israel only became popular with the GOP with the split between Bibi and Barack, fostered by skkkum in the GOP who have always hated Jews.
The attempt to bite into the Jewish-American vote going to DEMs is what this GOP is about right now as you well know.

This is a GOP I have been watching perform these RACIST acts since the Southern Strategy of Nixon beginning in the 1950s with Lee Atwater.
And finally come to its dreadful fruition with Nixon getting elected in 1968, aided by Wallace walking out on the Chicago convention .
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Almost the entire world agrees that Iran has a right to have nuclear power....but not nuclear weapons.
Do you know the difference between nuclear power and nuclear weapons?
Whether he does or doesn't really doesn't matter.
He's here to lie about Obama and play the "vote for GOPs" Jewish-American card.

The Saudi's instigated and funded the military coup that overthrew the democratically elected government in Egypt because they didn't want any Islamic government in the ME except theirs. You know Saudi Arabia is not a democracy, right?
Please stop confusing them with facts .
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Almost the entire world agrees that Iran has a right to have nuclear power....but not nuclear weapons. Do you know the difference between nuclear power and nuclear weapons?

The Saudi's instigated and funded the military coup that overthrew the democratically elected government in Egypt because they didn't want any Islamic government in the ME except theirs. You know Saudi Arabia is not a democracy, right?

Iran has a program aimed at refining weapons grade uranium and is also working on intercontinental ballistic missiles. I assume you keep up with the news. The Egyptian military overthrew the Muslim brotherhood. The conflict in the Middle East is between Sunni and Shia. You knew that didn't you? Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and the Hooties (SP) in Yemen are too close to the Royal family for comfort soothes are bombing them. I don't think that any country in the Middle East, except Israel, is culturally equipped to deal with democracy. Why do thou think it's a big deal.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Netanyahu should urge that the US should give up Texas, New Mexico and California as a "Two State" solution to the citizenship issue for foreign nationals.

Maybe cities and states in the USA should also be divided ethnically since that is what Obama and many Democrats believe is the solution of ethnic issues. Just go on record as supporting return to segregation and separate but equal doctrine.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I wouldn't call it the litmus test. I would call it a litmus test. It seems there are a lot of criteria now a days to be in the GOP. Essentially, they all are monotonous blobs with similar horrendous policy.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Netanyahu should urge that the US should give up Texas, New Mexico and California as a "Two State"
solution to the citizenship issue for foreign nationals.
You forgot Arizona and the rest of the Confederate South--plus the lead Modern day KKK state of Indiana, begun in the 1920s.
We've already seen these nullification efforts throughout the Clinton and now Obama years.
Along with so many of their State's Wrongs .
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Almost the entire world agrees that Iran has a right to have nuclear power....but not nuclear weapons. Do you know the difference between nuclear power and nuclear weapons?

You do understand that nuclear weapons use atomic material, right?

Jews learned that the other countries of the world will not protect them and never have. Most of the world would not care if every Jew on earth was killed and certain would either not care or celebrate if all of Israel was literally blow off the face of the earth.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Here's something of interest



William Kristol has made the following boast



Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us/politics/republicans-criticize-james-baker-for-speech-on-benjamin-netanyahu.html?_r=0


Have never understood why such a large majority of American Jews vote for Democrats when it's the Republicans who clearly do more and are more sincere in their support for Israel.

:confused:

Oh well.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

It is hard for many to get their heads around the fact that democrats would really allow Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish state.

This comment is standard right wing dishonesty and rhetoric. It's also ignorant. MOST US Jews are Democrats... and most US Jews support the existence of Israel. See, this is what happens when right wingers make hackish comments without thinking before they speak.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

I wouldn't call it the litmus test. I would call it a litmus test. It seems there are a lot of criteria now a days to be in the GOP. Essentially, they all are monotonous blobs with similar horrendous policy.
Sheldon Adelson pretty much controls the GOP, his wife is Isreali too.

Sheldon Adelson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Have never understood why such a large majority of American Jews vote for Democrats when it's the Republicans who clearly do more and are more sincere in their support for Israel. :confused:Oh well.

Confused being from the South--where so many conservatives, not all of course, have long hated Jews, Catholics, and Blacks ?
Your memory isn't that bad about the way Jews were hated with the rise of the modern KKK in the 1920s and 1960s.
Remember how Jews were treated when they came South to help Blacks vote in the 1960s ?
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

The Adelson summit last March still flies under the radar around here.
Being anti-Union is Adelson's greatest feature to me--so Walker, Kasich, and Christie made sense.
Choosing Bush was covering his Israeli neocon base in the GOP--interesting how all four were governors .

Sheldon Adelson pretty much controls the GOP, his wife is Isreali too.

Sheldon Adelson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Confused being from the South--where so many conservatives, not all of course, have long hated Jews, Catholics, and Blacks ?
Your memory isn't that bad about the way Jews were hated with the rise of the modern KKK in the 1920s and 1960s.
Remember how Jews were treated when they came South to help Blacks vote in the 1960s ?

This is an excellent point. KKK members are noted and extreme conservatives. Their dislike of Jews and Israel is well documented. Jews tend to vote Democrat because Jews tend to be very concerned with social issues when it comes to politics, often because of the hardships and persecution they have faced. Liberals focus more on social issues than conservatives... therefore, Jews tend to vote Democrat more often.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

You do understand that nuclear weapons use atomic material, right?
Do you, because you don't show it?

Jews learned that the other countries of the world will not protect them and never have. Most of the world would not care if every Jew on earth was killed and certain would either not care or celebrate if all of Israel was literally blow off the face of the earth.
Actually, Jews are safer in the US than they are in Israel.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Confused being from the South--where so many conservatives, not all of course, have long hated Jews, Catholics, and Blacks ?
Your memory isn't that bad about the way Jews were hated with the rise of the modern KKK in the 1920s and 1960s.
Remember how Jews were treated when they came South to help Blacks vote in the 1960s ?

I wasn't alive at that time, so no.

What I can say is that I have never personally seen or heard any anti-Semitism in the 5 years I've been living in Texas.

And all that being said, we're talking about the Republican Party, not southerners. True, many southerners do lean conservative, but the Republican Party is a national party not limited to any particular region of the country.
 
Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Iran has a program aimed at refining weapons grade uranium
If they do, no one has been able to find it, let alone prove it. It's kinda like trying to prove a negative.


... and is also working on intercontinental ballistic missiles. I assume you keep up with the news.
Then I guess you don't keep up with the news because Iran isn't working on and doesn't have ICBMs....

Analysis: Iranian ICBM claim falls short of the mark - IHS Jane's 360

Pentagon Changes Its Assessment of Iran


The Egyptian military overthrew the Muslim brotherhood.
With the Saudi's full support....

Support for el-Sisi: What


The conflict in the Middle East is between Sunni and Shia. You knew that didn't you?
You knew the US isn't Sunni or Shia, right?

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and the Hooties (SP) in Yemen are too close to the Royal family for comfort soothes are bombing them. I don't think that any country in the Middle East, except Israel, is culturally equipped to deal with democracy. Why do thou think it's a big deal.
Saudi's are Salafists and Salafists reject democracy and Egypt's democratically elected president was ousted and replaced by a military dictator supported by the Saudi's. So what does that tell you?
 
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