Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

radcen · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
One reason is that the GOP hasn't seen a war that they do not like. That suits Israel's purposes well in the Middle East.

There's a simplistic and ignorant statement if I've ever seen one.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

washunut said:
Not sure I can make sense out of the nonsense above. Has America fought in its wars. It fights as a mercenary force when Arabs are in trouble, never for Israel.

What in the hell do you mean? The U.S. spent trillions of dollars effing around in Iraq, lost thousands of lives, and left many thousands more young American men maimed for life. It didn't have a damn thing to do with Arabs being in trouble.

washunut said:
Or did you mean, a nation of about 6 million Jews which has been attacked since its inception nearly 70 years ago enjoys sending its children to die.

Since its inception? Funny you should say that. We should go over to the Israel/Palestine section and discuss that at length. It is a rather interesting story.

If they don't like their children dying then they should make the necessary steps to move towards giving the Palestinians a state, instead of regularly engaging in what they call, "mowing the lawn."

Apocalypse · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
Wrong as two left shoes. It is indeed a U.S. interest because it does support stability in the Middle East. Why? Because Israel wants to maintain a state that is Jewish in nature, so it is not going to expand Israel to make the Palestinians part of it. For this reason, there is no way forward but a two state solution.

There will not be a stable Middle East until the Palestinian issue is resolved. There are far too many Arabs and Muslims in the Middle East who perceive that Israel's mistreatment of the Palestinians is part of a larger pattern of behavior that has been hostile to not only the Palestinians but Muslims in the Middle East by Israel and the U.S. as well. The U.S. needs to divorce itself of its past in the Middle East and cannot do so until this issue is resolved.

I'm not questioning that the two states solution is the only solution to the I-P conflict, but that solving the conflict will somehow bring stability to the Mideast.
It's a ridiculous assertion that has no real logical basis. What does the Syrian civil war have to do with the I-P conflict? The Yemen crisis? The Egyptian protests? The situation in Iraq, Afghanistan? It's a delusional assertion.

washunut · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
Wrong as two left shoes. It is indeed a U.S. interest because it does support stability in the Middle East. Why? Because Israel wants to maintain a state that is Jewish in nature, so it is not going to expand Israel to make the Palestinians part of it. For this reason, there is no way forward but a two state solution.

There will not be a stable Middle East until the Palestinian issue is resolved. There are far too many Arabs and Muslims in the Middle East who perceive that Israel's mistreatment of the Palestinians is part of a larger pattern of behavior that has been hostile to not only the Palestinians but Muslims in the Middle East by Israel and the U.S. as well. The U.S. needs to divorce itself of its past in the Middle East and cannot do so until this issue is resolved.

Is there any one really stupid enough to believe the civil wars going on in Syria and Yemen would go away if the Palestinian issue was resolved? How about if the MB was put back in power in Egypt, or that Iran would not continue their quest to control the ME.

Based on the post above you want us to believe you really are that stupid. I refuse to come to that conclusion. Please clarify.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

code1211 said:
The world and the attacks on Israel have changed since Baker was in a position of power.

What James Baker said is the truth. The Israel was blocking the creation of a Palestinian state then, they are blocking it now.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

radcen said:
There's a simplistic and ignorant statement if I've ever seen one.

It may be somewhat simplistic radcen, but you damn well it is not ignorant. And if you really think that is the case, then show how it is indeed ignorant.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Apocalypse said:
I'm not questioning that the two states solution is the only solution to the I-P conflict, but that solving the conflict will somehow bring stability to the Mideast.

I said it supports stability in the Middle East. there is a difference you know.

Sherman123 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
Here's something of interest

William Kristol has made the following boast

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us/politics/republicans-criticize-james-baker-for-speech-on-benjamin-netanyahu.html?_r=0

No. Support for Israel has always been a litmus test for most candidates in the US, especially in the Republican Party. People like Ron Paul have always been the outliers. The real issue is whether or not support for Israel is becoming a partisan issue with elements of the Democratic Party drifting away from the ironclad position that they have historically held.

jamesrage · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
Here's something of interest

William Kristol has made the following boast

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us/politics/republicans-criticize-james-baker-for-speech-on-benjamin-netanyahu.html?_r=0

I say no. Republicans tend to cater to evangelical Christians. Evangelical Christians tend to support Israel due to their belief of the Jews being God's chosen people and Israel as the homeland for Jews.

JANFU · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

Apocalypse said:
No it's not a US interest.
It's something the US supports, it's not an American interest and it has nothing to do with the stability of the entire Mideast.

It is a key interest of US Foreign Policy. Do you think that Arab countries do not see this as an Arab/Muslim interest?
And it does have ramifications throughout not only the Muslim world but the EU as well.
The EU is no longer towing the US line on the situation.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

code1211 said:
What good is it to negotiate a "Two State Solution" with a negotiating partner that has the goal of eliminating the other state?

This is an issue for the Israel/Palestine section, but let me briefly say that how the hell do you expect a group of people who have been forced from their homes by the hundreds of thousands, whose innocent children are regularly killed in Israel's "mowing the lawn", to respond. People like Netanyahu appear to be hell bent on eliminating the Palestinians.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

code1211 said:
Well, it is a part of the Obama plan and the rest of his plan is doing wonders so far.

What part of the Obama foreign policy is the part that tells you he has the first clue about foreign policy?

The part that says that there needs to be a two state solution, the part that Netanyahu, the person who William Kristol proudly boasts would be the Republican nominee if the rules were different, rejects.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

SouthernDemocrat said:
Support for Israel in the GOP is nothing new. It's been a litmus test for decades for them. Make no mistake about it, socially conservative, dispensationalist, white evangelicals make up the biggest portion of the GOP base. These people see blind support of Israel as something literally commanded by God and that Israel will be central to the End Times which are at hand. They believe that no nation will prosper that does not blindly support the government of Israel. This verse they take to heart:

-Genesis 12:1-3

Support for Israel has been a litmus test for the GOP since the rise of the Religious Right back in the 70s.

I know. I was talking to one of my cousins on the phone once and he started talking to me like that. I did not say anything. It is so sad, that people actually believe that. It is very, very sad.

rocket88 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
Here's something of interest

William Kristol has made the following boast

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us/politics/republicans-criticize-james-baker-for-speech-on-benjamin-netanyahu.html?_r=0

I'd say it's more of a litmus test for anyone. However in the GOP, ANY critcism of Israel would appear to not be kosher. We see it here. All you have to do is question if more settlements is a good idea and the charges of anti-semitism start flying.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

sawdust said:
It's not a litmus test. It's consistent and intelligent foreign policy. Democrats should be on board.

What exactly is intelligent about opposing a two state solution? Israel does not want the Palestinians in their Jewish state. Do they actually think they can keep them in such wretched conditions perpetually. That notion is dumb as a bag of hammers.

MildSteel · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

FreedomFromAll said:
Pastors have been telling their flocks to stand with Israel for over 50 years in the US. Its what good Christians are supposed to do.

Yeah they do that but they forget about all this

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
....
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Concerning Netanyahu, even people like Sarkozy can't stand him he is such a liar

French President Nicolas Sarkozy branded Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "a liar" in a private conversation with U.S. President Barack Obama that was accidentally broadcast to journalists during last week's G20 summit in Cannes.

"I cannot bear Netanyahu, he's a liar," Sarkozy told Obama, unaware that the microphones in their meeting room had been switched on, enabling reporters in a separate location to listen in to a simultaneous translation.

Sarkozy tells Obama Netanyahu is a liar | Reuters

That is so sad, so very, very sad.

B'smith · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

rocket88 said:
I'd say it's more of a litmus test for anyone. However in the GOP, ANY critcism of Israel would appear to not be kosher. We see it here. All you have to do is question if more settlements is a good idea and the charges of anti-semitism start flying.

_________________________

I was looking for the same block to check:

(O) Anyone with a pulse

In the forty years I've been pushing for an Equitable US Mid East Policy, I've learned that the howling of "Anti Semite" is simply waving the "White Flag" of Debate.

Thanks for a delightfully uplifting comment

“Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”
~ Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002.
www.whale.to/b/netanyahu_h.html***

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

washunut said:
The part working best seems to be the one to delegitimize the state of Israel. In his find a colony of European Jews.

It's probably about time to start asking if Obama is an anti-semite.

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
What James Baker said is the truth. The Israel was blocking the creation of a Palestinian state then, they are blocking it now.

There is a Palestinian State. It is called the Gaza Strip.

In the last few years they have launched 1000's of rockets to indiscriminately kill Jews in Israel.

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
This is an issue for the Israel/Palestine section, but let me briefly say that how the hell do you expect a group of people who have been forced from their homes by the hundreds of thousands, whose innocent children are regularly killed in Israel's "mowing the lawn", to respond. People like Netanyahu appear to be hell bent on eliminating the Palestinians.

There are only two ways anything can be: The way it is and the way you wish it might be.

The chosen method to effect change in this part of the world is to kill anything that moves. That is the method the Palestinians have chosen to pursue.

You really need to watch a video of the Hasidic Rabbi's picking the small parts of Jews off the walls and light posts after the suicide bomber completes his grisly mission.

rocket88 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

code1211 said:
There is a Palestinian State. It is called the Gaza Strip.

In the last few years they have launched 1000's of rockets to indiscriminately kill Jews in Israel.

If there's already a Palestinian state, what exactly did Netanyahu promise? I'm pretty sure Israel doesn't have a time machine.

Skeptic Bob · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

code1211 said:
I don't understand why any Jew is still voting Democrat.

Why do people assume that Jews around the world take their marching orders from the Israeli government? Israel is not to the Jews what the Vatican is to the Catholics.

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

MildSteel said:
The part that says that there needs to be a two state solution, the part that Netanyahu, the person who William Kristol proudly boasts would be the Republican nominee if the rules were different, rejects.

Israel offered everything that Clinton asked them to offer and the Palestinians walked away from the table and the deal. They don't want a two state solution. Why do you refuse to understand what they are so clearly saying?

Seriously, though, is there any part of Obama's foreign policy that is a success? I really can't think of anything that is not a steaming, hot mess. The guy has the reverse Midas touch.

Should we assume that he is actually so stupid that he continuously blinders in to all of the wrong choices or should we assume that he is acting on behalf of those states that are traditionally our enemies?

Russia, Iran, ISIS, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Harrram, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban... All of the bad guys are prospering under the benign tutelage of the Big 0.

In the mean time, Israel is worried, the EU is terrified that the Iranians will get the Nuke very soon, 1000's die at the hands of the barbarians and the USA stands by idly while the borders of allies are overrun by the enemies.

The Saudis confide that it's better to be an enemy of the US than an ally.

Obama is a legitimate terror to the free world.

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

rocket88 said:
If there's already a Palestinian state, what exactly did Netanyahu promise? I'm pretty sure Israel doesn't have a time machine.

Gaza has it's own elected government and is autonomous.

I think their chief export is hate.

code1211 · Mar 28, 2015

Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

BrewerBob said:
Why do people assume that Jews around the world take their marching orders from the Israeli government? Israel is not to the Jews what the Vatican is to the Catholics.

I'm not implying that that "marching orders" are issued from Tel Aviv. Just that there is probably a bit of interest in what is happening there.

As I think of it right now, I have no friends that are Jews. I used to have quite a few when in school. They were all very interested in the condition of the Israeli state and the wars that seemed to come along every few years.

Perhaps that has changed.

If it has not, the obvious hate that Obama projects toward Israel should not be invisible to them.

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

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radcen

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MildSteel

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washunut

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MildSteel

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code1211

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