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Is it realistically possible to reverse climate change?

Is it realistically possible to reverse climate change?

  • Total voters
    43
iguanaman said:
Of course we can stop it. There is no law that says we need to burn every ounce of oil and coal and we can choose not to for the good of mankind.
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No we can't.... the problem is, not everyone is going to choose to, you can COUNT on that.

this idealism is getting crazy
 
sangha said:
There is a difference between stopping the use of oil and reducing the amount of oil we use.

I don't think we'll ever stop using oil, but I think we will reduce the use.
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We will be forced to because of the total oil in the oil in decreasing...
that is the only thing that will reduce it.
Because if WE don't consume it, someone else will....
 
celticwar17 said:
No we can't.... the problem is, not everyone is going to choose to, you can COUNT on that.

this idealism is getting crazy
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Was it idealism to think we could put a man on the moon in a decade? What is crazy is this attitude of fatalism and helplessness. Do you think that is what America was built on?
 
celticwar17 said:
We will be forced to because of the total oil in the oil in decreasing...
that is the only thing that will reduce it.
Because if WE don't consume it, someone else will....
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I disagree. The rate of oil consumption is closely tied to the level of economic activity. If the various environmental problems (ex AGW, soil erosion, decreasing supplies of fresh water, etc) have the effect on economic activity that is expected, then that activity will decrease and with it, so will the use of oil.
 
Threegoofs said:
Oil cant get cheaper than the cost it takes to extract it.

And by a carbon tax, we will shift the energy infrastructure to renewables, and those should eventually be cheaper than oil, which makes them more desirable.

We cant reverse climate change, but we can slow the damage down.
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The infrastructure for oil is already in place. You think the reason for all the wealth in Saudi Arabia and UAE is their is because there is no profit from oil? There is TONS of profit, they could reduce the price of a barrel down by 75% and STILL make a profit. As oil runs out, there will be even more demand... you cannot fight this on a world scale
 
sangha said:
I disagree. The rate of oil consumption is closely tied to the level of economic activity. If the various environmental problems (ex AGW, soil erosion, decreasing supplies of fresh water, etc) have the effect on economic activity that is expected, then that activity will decrease and with it, so will the use of oil.
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You are not also taking into account of all the developing countries and growing population EVERYWHERE. The Asian Pacific countries have surpassed the United states by 10 million barrels per day in the last 10 years, while the US's consumption is stagnant.
 
iguanaman said:
Was it idealism to think we could put a man on the moon in a decade? What is crazy is this attitude of fatalism and helplessness. Do you think that is what America was built on?
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Putting a man on the moon didn't have the limits of convincing EVERYONE ON THE PLANET to do what we want....
 
celticwar17 said:
The infrastructure for oil is already in place. You think the reason for all the wealth in Saudi Arabia and UAE is their is because there is no profit from oil? There is TONS of profit, they could reduce the price of a barrel down by 75% and STILL make a profit. As oil runs out, there will be even more demand... you cannot fight this on a world scale
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Yes you can. When you have cheaper alternatives, people will default to them. And we can have cheaper alternatives than oil.


But we need to start pricing in the environmental costs of oil right now to make those alternatives reality.
 
Threegoofs said:
Yes you can. When you have cheaper alternatives, people will default to them. And we can have cheaper alternatives than oil.


But we need to start pricing in the environmental costs of oil right now to make those alternatives reality.
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I think that's fantasy... the world is already reliant on oil... and it will become expensive when it becomes rare...

There are not any cheaper alternatives right now... I have a degree in Physics and environmental science and attended regular hearings on solutions to alternative energy... THERE IS NOTHING, until the oil price increases... and that is not happening on a world scale anytime soon...

in fact, When oil becomes too expensive, other means of extracting oil will become more popular, like shale oil.... of which the US has the most in the world.
 
Reverse climate change? Reverse it to what? The climate has been in a constant state of change for as long as there has been a climate.
 
celticwar17 said:
I think that's fantasy... the world is already reliant on oil... and it will become expensive when it becomes rare...

There are not any cheaper alternatives right now... I have a degree in Physics and environmental science and attended regular hearings on solutions to alternative energy... THERE IS NOTHING, until the oil price increases... and that is not happening on a world scale anytime soon...

in fact, When oil becomes too expensive, other means of extracting oil will become more popular, like shale oil.... of which the US has the most in the world.
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And as you develop those alternatives, they become cheaper. Solar is plummeting in cost now and is competitive with grid energy.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...competitive-with-the-grid-in-much-of-the-u-s/

Extracting oil is expensive. Extracting shale oil is even more expensive. Add the environmental costs in as a carbon tax, and its cost prohibitive.
 
Threegoofs said:
And as you develop those alternatives, they become cheaper. Solar is plummeting in cost now and is competitive with grid energy.

Rooftop Solar Cost Competitive with the Grid in Much of the U.S. - Scientific American

Extracting oil is expensive. Extracting shale oil is even more expensive. Add the environmental costs in as a carbon tax, and its cost prohibitive.
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The big reason on cost is because oil will be decreasing in availability. Oil in turn will also become cheaper in mist of competition...hence a lot fo the rumors of the current reduced in oil prices
 
Sure. Wait 5,000 years and everyone will be freaking out about how interstellar space flight with our minds rather than spaceships is causing an ice age.
 
celticwar17 said:
You are not also taking into account of all the developing countries and growing population EVERYWHERE. The Asian Pacific countries have surpassed the United states by 10 million barrels per day in the last 10 years, while the US's consumption is stagnant.
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If the developed nations take an economic downturn, we'll bring the developing nations with us because their development depends on exporting goods to nations like ours.
 
I have no idea.

And it's not my problem...I will be dead before it starts affecting the planet in a major way.

And I do my part for the environment...so my conscious is clear.


As I have said many times - if humanity is too stupid to stop from destroying itself, then they deserve everything they get.
 
celticwar17 said:
The big reason on cost is because oil will be decreasing in availability. Oil in turn will also become cheaper in mist of competition...hence a lot fo the rumors of the current reduced in oil prices
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Again, oil prices will not go lower than the cost to extract it.
 
There is enough energy that hits the earth in the form of sunlight that everyone
alive can live a first world lifestyle (in regards to energy).
The problem is that the sunlight is not in a form that is,
A: dense enough for most uses, and
B: is not always available when needed.
Storing photovoltaic solar electricity as man made hydrocarbon fuel,
solves both of those issues in the short term.
Long term, I could see the same technology being integrated into a hydrogen economy.
Ether way we will have the energy without the CO2.
 
Full scale nuclear war would probably do it. It would fill our skies with dust and block out the sun.

Either that or we could get hit by a comet or asteroid.
 
longview said:
There is enough energy that hits the earth in the form of sunlight that everyone
alive can live a first world lifestyle (in regards to energy).
The problem is that the sunlight is not in a form that is,
A: dense enough for most uses, and
B: is not always available when needed.
Storing photovoltaic solar electricity as man made hydrocarbon fuel,
solves both of those issues in the short term.
Long term, I could see the same technology being integrated into a hydrogen economy.
Ether way we will have the energy without the CO2.
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Great really. It needs more research to be economically viable though. That was the case , when I last checked.
 
I hold great faith in mankind's ability to achieve almost anything it wishes given enough time. Where I lose faith is in mankind's decision to do so. Most of humanities problems, including GW, could be solved if only we were determined as a whole to see them eradicated. The issue is most humans are very self serving and look to themselves without ever giving a thought or sacrifice to the greater good. Many recognize the worlds problems and even feel something needs to be done to correct them but when it comes down to actually making the difference they will conveniently leave it to someone else. Big problems require big effort and frankly humans in general are just not ready to make the sacrifice.
 
celticwar17 said:
Fair enough.... I had to make assumptions based on many opinions on the matter...that is why I included global warming as well.

Do you think man can reverse climate change... do you think man will?
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No, which is why I think the climate change debate is pretty much irrelevant. Even if we could scientifically prove beyond a doubt that man is causing it there's nothing we can do about it short of killing one third of the world's population and the rest reverting to neo-luddism. Paying carbon tax credit isnt gonna save the planet.
 
Take a look at the history of planet Earth. :roll:

Earth's climate has changed many times.
 
celticwar17 said:
This question has many that branch off from it...


Without reducing the world population and without being able to control or regulate other foreign countries.... does anyone really expect to be able to reduce carbon emissions on a grand scale enough to halt it's affect on global warming(if there is a definitive causation)?


Do you expect all the oil-producing countries to stop doing so?


When it comes to oil and gasoline, unless there arises a cheaper option(even then, it will always be there), these commodities will be expended until they run out permanently... until these resources become rare enough to not become a reasonable means to use.


If these are the things that are causing global warming/climate change... I believe it is inevitable, no matter own many world conventions you have that us humans will expend every last drop of oil on this planet.




What can be changed? What can be stopped? What is worth fighting for when it comes to the environment?
In my opinion...
-toxic substances like pesticides, high sulfur content in coal, acids, toxic waste, mercury, arsenic, etc.
These are all substances, with good practices, that can largely be eliminated

-Deforestation, bad farming practices, errosion
All can be done with good farming practices and alternatives
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Climate, changes. So that's like asking to stop the tide, or make the sun set in the east.
 
The cure for global warming is nuclear winter.
 
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