Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

Henrin said:

No, it doesn't. Nothing about America is unregulated. Well, unless the product is brand new, but even then most likely it still falls under a few regulations.

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If capitalism as it stands now with regulation is already having such a divide, unregulated capitalism would be worse, and you can look back in American history to see how "great" it was before regulation.

Dovkan said:

If capitalism as it stands now with regulation is already having such a divide, the unregulated free market would be worse, and you can look back in American history to see how "great" it was before regulation.

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Did you ever think that perhaps the divide is caused by the regulation?

Henrin said:

Did you ever think that perhaps the divide is caused by the regulation?

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Look back in American history before regulations and get back to me, or I will ignore you.

MildSteel said:

Republicans appear to be determined to block any sort of efforts designed to help the middle class. For example they opposed this effort to allow students to refinance their student loans



GOP blocks Warren

They also have voiced opposition to Obama's plan to provide free community college and opposed extending unemployment insurance to unemployed Americans.

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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Students don't want to refinance a loan. They want a job so they can pay the damn thing off.

Dovkan said:

More fear mongering statements coupled with paranoia.'
Wait, hold on, 17 million?
Employment Situation Summary
What have democrats been doing to destroy it? Republicans don't want tax cuts for the middle class, cheaper college... :roll:

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Do you honestly believe the government to give you honest figures about who is actually out of work?

But I get bored with one-liner insults and assigned talking points really quickly so I'll be moving on. I am pretty sure I can back up my numbers. Do have a nice day.

Dovkan said:

Ok, what regulation do you have a problem with?

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As just a quick example of what I'm talking about, the Uber controversy in New York shows the protectionist, corrupt nature of some regulations and how they hurt the citizens they purport to help. Fewer taxis at a higher rate, owned by massive medallion holding companies does literally the opposite of "regulating" the transportation for hire business in most cities while protecting the rich from competition.

I also have several beefs with major pieces of union regulation in this same vein.

AlbqOwl said:

Do you honestly believe the government to give you honest figures about who is actually out of work?

But I get bored with one-liner insults and assigned talking points really quickly so I'll be moving on. I am pretty sure I can back up my numbers. Do have a nice day.

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I will trust the bureau of labor statistics, much like you probably trust our military, even if the figures aren't honest, do you think they'd get away with a number half the size of what you propose? Give me one study stating 17 million are unemployed, able bodied people instead of bailing out when you can't argue with the official BLS numbers.

MildSteel said:

Republicans appear to be determined to block any sort of efforts designed to help the middle class. For example they opposed this effort to allow students to refinance their student loans



GOP blocks Warren

They also have voiced opposition to Obama's plan to provide free community college and opposed extending unemployment insurance to unemployed Americans.

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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Of course they are!


I happen to know that Ted Cruz, Scott Walker and Sarah Palin meet regularly to find new ways to screw the middle class, eliminate it all together.

and that's just the people we're watching! The back roomers have serious plans involving drones and oil pipelines, jobs only for rich people

Gonzo Rodeo said:

As just a quick example of what I'm talking about, the Uber controversy in New York shows the protectionist, corrupt nature of some regulations and how they hurt the citizens they purport to help. Fewer taxis at a higher rate, owned by massive medallion holding companies does literally the opposite of "regulating" the transportation for hire business in most cities while protecting the rich from competition.

I also have several beefs with major pieces of union regulation in this same vein.

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I'm not ok with some regulations, and am all for a competitive free market in many things, apart from healthcare and some other aspects. I agree that is bad, but the regulation we have appears to be working, net neutrality is a good example on one thing, not allowing massive monopolies, although that could use more work..

Fearandloathing said:

Of course they are!


I happen to know that Ted Cruz, Scott Walker and Sarah Palin meet regularly to find new ways to screw the middle class, eliminate it all together.

and that's just the people we're watching! The back roomers have serious plans involving drones and oil pipelines, jobs only for rich people

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That wouldn't surprise me.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

You're saying unregulated capitalism results in a majority of the population being part of the powerful elite?

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No, I'm saying that regulation protects the average American from the powerful elite. In the absence of regulation, the powerful elite, represented by the wolves, has the sheep, the working class Americans, thinking that they're in on the dinner menu decision.

MildSteel said:

Republicans appear to be determined to block any sort of efforts designed to help the middle class. For example they opposed this effort to allow students to refinance their student loans



GOP blocks Warren

They also have voiced opposition to Obama's plan to provide free community college and opposed extending unemployment insurance to unemployed Americans.

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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The only thing that helps the middle class is full employment. Government can help with creating employment by removing obstacles to to entrepreneurism, a tax structure which allows people to invest in themselves or their businesses and generally getting out of the way. Full employment encourages rising wages because it creates a buyers market for jobs. High unemployment creates a buyers market for employees.

Elizabeth Warrens bill to help refinance student loans has nothing to do with helping the middle class.

Fearandloathing said:

Of course they are!


I happen to know that Ted Cruz, Scott Walker and Sarah Palin meet regularly to find new ways to screw the middle class, eliminate it all together.

and that's just the people we're watching! The back roomers have serious plans involving drones and oil pipelines, jobs only for rich people

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:lamo: .. :thumbs: "In the latest breaking news, an anonymous spokesman for the back roomers confirmed that eliminating the middle class, who pay most of the taxes, is the best thing that could be done to get this Country back on the right track... Stay tuned for further developments on the absurd notion that working at a job is necessary for self esteem, and might be a good way to improve their lives...Speaking off the cuff here, I agree with those who find that laughable nonsense...."

MildSteel said:

First of all you have made a distortion in that you say that the example was meant to suggest that Democrats are for the middle class. So right off the bat you have demonstrated bias. The next thing is that you are wrong when you suggest that the Democrats are mainly responsible for the conditions that have led to student loan debt being higher than credit card debt (if that is indeed true).

The thing is this, people should be able to refinance student loans to take advantage of lower interest rates. That is something that would provide much needed relief to the middle class. That Republicans oppose this and other such measures that would give the middle class some relief, demonstrates a pattern of behavior that is hostile to middle class interests.

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Me being able to refinance by student loans really doesn't help if I can't find a job that isn't part-time or near minimum wage. So I would say that refinancing is a part of helping people, but far, far from the full package. As a recent college grad who is unable to find employment, the best thing that could be done is job creation.

polgara said:

:lamo: .. :thumbs: "In the latest breaking news, an anonymous spokesman for the back roomers confirmed that eliminating the middle class, who pay most of the taxes, is the best thing that could be done to get this Country back on the right track... Stay tuned for further developments on the absurd notion that working at a job is necessary for self esteem, and might be a good way to improve their lives...Speaking off the cuff here, I agree with those who find that laughable nonsense...."

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Now that they have been outed, I suspect there will be a change of plans, the meetings will become more secret, especially after they take back the White House under a Palin/Bush ticket.

polgara said:

:lamo: .. :thumbs: "In the latest breaking news, an anonymous spokesman for the back roomers confirmed that eliminating the middle class, who pay most of the taxes, is the best thing that could be done to get this Country back on the right track... Stay tuned for further developments on the absurd notion that working at a job is necessary for self esteem, and might be a good way to improve their lives...Speaking off the cuff here, I agree with those who find that laughable nonsense...."

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Most republicans are middle class, so you have to wonder what sort of lunacy it is that would cause people to believe that they want to screw themselves. I'm actually not sure many actually believe it. It's just that they can't think of a more clever way to convince dumbasses that don't know any better that "republicans are evil and hate you so you should vote for democrats". That sort of strategy wouldn't work if the democrats didn't target the dumbest 50 percent of the population with their empty promises, dishonest arguments and outright lies, but it works just fine for their target audience.

AlbqOwl said:

They should lower the interest rates unless the interest rates are necessary to cover the cost of the program to the taxpayer. Or they should disband the program and let the private sector do it.

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They should definitely lower the interest rate.

MildSteel said:

Republicans appear to be determined to block any sort of efforts designed to help the middle class. For example they opposed this effort to allow students to refinance their student loans



GOP blocks Warren

They also have voiced opposition to Obama's plan to provide free community college and opposed extending unemployment insurance to unemployed Americans.

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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Directly, yes. Indirectly, no.

Direct aid/assistance is a "No-No" for most Republicans assuming such aid/assistance would come at the government's expense. The guiding philosophy here is "you knew the risk, now settle the matter on your own." And that applies to just about everything from home mortgages, job loss (unemployment compensation), health care coverage, student loan debt...you name it and if the fed has to (or is encouraged to) help "you" financially to get out of or through a given situation, you can all but forget about it.

Of course, there's another face to conservatism and that's charitable given through non-profit donations or philanthropy. Problem with both is not all charity reaches those in need and not all philanthropist efforts pan out. And so we're often times left with people who don't get reached. Not everyone hears about the non-profit organization that holds a food or clothing drive and even if they did, are the donations being handed out in your neighborhood? Or do you have to travel 50 miles away to get to it? And while philanthropy is suppose to be a means towards job creation, most Republicans would rather provide tax cuts, deductions or credits as incentives for job growth.

While I can agree with the above as solutions for everyday problems, I can't get behind such an attitude in times of crisis. When the greater society needs help, the only entity that can reach the largest amount of people in the shortest amount of time is government. It may not do everything well, but government should always be their when the country (or segments thereof) are in urgent need.

Papa bull said:

Most republicans are middle class, so you have to wonder what sort of lunacy it is that would cause people to believe that they want to screw themselves.

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That is a good question. The answer might be similar to the reason why Democrats supported Bill Clinton, despite the fact that he supported outsourcing jobs overseas. People do things that don't make sense.

Montecresto said:

Humans can handle capitalism. But because men aren't angels, it must have restrictions and regulation, otherwise it naturally becomes predatory. And it's the restriction and regulation that the pro corporate GOP opposes.

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I don't know about all that. The thing is this, capitalism will not work out well if markets are not free. The problem with government restriction and regulation is that it introduces a player into the market that makes it difficult for players to predict. As an example, consider the financial crisis of 2008. If you were a player and you were looking at market conditions at that time, without government interference certain institutions would have certainly failed. Now let's suppose you were looking at that, and anticipating the failure of an institution you heavily invested your money in its competitor. However, all of the sudden the government steps in, and saves the institution because the Treasury Secretary used to be the CEO there. It then turns out that the one you invested in becomes the one that fails. That's one problem. The next thing, closely related is that you have to be able to trust the government to interfere and regulate fairly. But government is controlled by politicians, who in turn are controlled by money. So people and corporations with large amounts of money will use the system to their advantage and to the disadvantage of others.

Over and above all that, even if you did a halfway decent job of regulating it, capitalism by its intrinsic nature produces distortions in wealth distributions that lead to the wealthy getting more wealth and more power, at the expense of those who are not. Unless they use that power wisely, which they will not because of greed, there will be all kinds of problems.

Therefore, I don't know sometimes, although I hate to come to that conclusion, perhaps a socialist model is better for human society. Just speculating.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

I can see how you would believe that, what with all of your flamingly biased rhetoric aimed at Republicans. But think about this - had Sen. Warren really wanted interest relief for students, she wouldn't have hitched that horse to the "double the taxes on the wealthy" wagon. It would have been it's own standalone provision. Interest makes the government money, but it doesn't cost the government anything to lower the rate. Wouldn't it be a better idea to divorce the two - student loans and income generation - from each other within the government?

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Actually I agree with you that income generation should be divorced from student loans. That is a good point.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Her offer wasn't a real offer, nor more than if I offer to cut your grass for you one time, so long as you paint my house and repave my driveway first.

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It was an offer. The thing is this, since it is a good idea, why haven't the Republicans put forward a measure to do such? They are in control now. They are not going to do it. That simple is not in their chemistry. They have a hostility towards the middle class. They are eager to put forward and pass legislation that allows creditors to garnish people's wages, but they can't find it in themselves to put forward a proposal to let student loan customers refinance their debt. That demonstrates a level of hostility towards the middle class.

No. Republicans are for helping those who NEED help and ONLY those who need help. The fact is for things such as the free college education nothing is free somewhere we PAY for that.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Uh, Iraq is over. Perhaps you haven't heard.

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Oh no!!!! Iraq is not over by a long shot. Perhaps you haven't heard of ISIS.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

And I don't see that money magically appearing anywhere else with the stroke of a pen.

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Oh it happens all the time. And actually they don't need a pen, its done with the keystroke of a computer.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Not only was the cost of the war a very sore point for many Republicans

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If it was such a sore point for Republicans why where they leading the damn charge. Dick Cheney, a Republican, led the effort to push the U.S. into a wild goose chase for WMDs in Iraq. If Republicans didn't want the damn war to begin with, why did they nominate Bush again?

dogs4thewin said:

No. Republicans are for helping those who NEED help and ONLY those who need help. The fact is for things such as the free college education nothing is free somewhere we PAY for that.

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It's like liberals never heard of the proverb: give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Liberals keep wanting to give people fish. Conservatives are trying to teach people to fish. Liberals don't like that.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

The average length of unemployment increases commensurate to an increase in UI benefits. There is also a pronounced spike in rehiring of UI benefit claimants upon the termination of their benefits, i.e. their job search suddenly becomes more fruitful when benefits are about to expire.

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What you really trying to say is that terminating unemployment insurance causes people to become employed. And that is a bunch of bull****. That is just like me saying that there is a study that shows black males have larger penis sizes than whites. Therefore my penis is bigger than yours.

Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at Ulster University carried out the research, which is published in the scientific journal Personality and Individual Differences.
113 nationalities were included in a study of average penis lengths.
Big
In the penis size league tables the Daily Mail reports that men from The Republic of the Congo take top position with a porn star like 7.1 inches, with the Ecuadorians, Ghanaians and Columbians not far behind with 7 inches, 6.8 inches and 6.7 inches respectively.
The average for the African continent as a whole is a whopping 6.3 inches.
Medium
The Icelanders come top of the Europeans with 6.5 inches.
The Germans are Mr European average with 5.7 inches.
The Brits come out above the French, beating the more traditional country of love and romance, by a full 0.2 inches.
The Brits also beat the Australians (5.2in), Americans (5.1in) and Irish (5in).
Small
At the other end of the table, North and South Korea measure in at 3.8 inches. India and Thailand are only slightly bigger at 4 inches.
The overall average for north-east Asians was the lowest at 4.2 inches.

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Average penis size study results confirm racial stereotypes

Having said that, I don't dispute that terminating unemployment insurance might make someone more desperate to find a job. Therefore a displaced aerospace engineer might accept a job a Burger King if that is all he can find. But even that might not be available. So, the point is this, having a suitable job causes people to get off of unemployment insurance. Not only that, what they pay is ridiculous. I know I could not meet my expenses with the maximum of what they pay. Perhaps some could and maybe as a result they will milk it out, but I know I could not.