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Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

  • Total voters
    83
Ironfist said:
If the government needs revenue, it should not be getting it from people trying to pay off student debt. The proceeds from borrowers payments should go to repay the loans only and not fund the government.
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However I did misspeak in my previous post when I said it is the one government program that actually shows a profit. That profit is strictly on paper. And you have to use real accounting to calculate it instead of CBO accounting that can get ridiculously creative.

There are many who think the early and projected profits from the student loans are not real and there will be a significant long term cost to the U.S. taxpayer. And if that is the real deal, then the higher interest rates are not unreasonable to keep. (See the whole article that I linked.)

I rather think if the government enforces repayment of student loans though, the risk of some loss is worth it since the expectation is that the loans will be paid. The interest rate should be set just slightly above what it costs the government to borrow that money to make the loans.
 
Henrin said:
You do realize that people in their thirties and even forties are still paying off their student loans, right?
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Yes, those who were paying the loans off just paying the minimum every month on the theory the interest rates were low will pay substantially more than will those who paid off their loans more quickly. Both of my kids had substantial student loans to repay but the degrees they earned with those loans have enabled them to earn substantial salaries and the loans were nothing compared to the earning power those degrees were worth. Those who don't stay in college or who don't educate themselves in marketable fields probably don't fare as well. But we all should plan early on to live with the consequences of the choices we make.
 
Dovkan said:
I actually agree on this point, but it's the education system as a whole that needs to be reworked, drilling information into children so they can fill in bubbles to determine how much funding a school gets is preposterous.
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The school lunch program is another federal boondoggle.
 
Ironfist said:
I pretty much agree with what you have said and that is what this discussion is about. I don't have a problem with the government making the loans, however they should lower the interest rates.
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They should lower the interest rates unless the interest rates are necessary to cover the cost of the program to the taxpayer. Or they should disband the program and let the private sector do it.
 
Henrin said:
Do you guys ever ponder why everything the government touches gets more expensive?
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Do you ponder why Republicans shoot down everything that would actually help the middle class?
 
jimbo said:
Your statements make no sense. The Warren "refinance" bill would have been paid for by increasing taxes on the rich. How is that not having the rich pay for it?
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No your statement makes no sense because the point is that borrowers should be paying for their loans, not profiting the government billions of dollars.
 
gdgyva said:
i am middle class....upper middle.....and i have zero issue with everyone paying their FAIR share......the issue is what i think is fair, and what you think are fair, are two extremely different things
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Your concept of fair is the government profiting billions of dollars from student loan consumers. That is not fair, that is gouging.
 
Zyphlin said:
I always enjoy analogies....

I'd say everyone would agree in a GENERAL sense, it's beneficial for children to get good grades.

However, let's say you have two teachers.

Teach A offers their students 10 points of extra credit after every test. Teach B doesn't.

Can we say Teacher B "against" helping kids get good grades based simply on the fact he doesn't provide extra credit?

No, that's a ridiculous stance to take. What's more likely is that Teacher B feels that a large amount of extra credit may cause children to actually NOT attempt to study as hard because they have that extra buffer, or believe that inflated grades due to extra credit may give the child a false belief of understanding on a subject beyond what they actually have, or that they feel it's better for a child to be faced with the reality of a bad grade if they don't study well as they feel ultimately it will motivate the child to do better in the future. Or, simply put, he feels while helping kids get good grades IS important, that there are OTHER important things as well when it comes children that outweigh the benefit of giving extra credit. Or hell, perhaps he just thinks the very concept of "extra credit" is against the code of conduct for the school and so he refrains from allowing for such.

So many questions like those of the OP are so reliant on the world functioning in this binary fashion, on top of each situation or issue existing in some kind of strange vacuum, all combined with this self-important belief that one's worldview is inherently superior and more "true" than anyone elses.

By and large Republicans care about the middle class. How much they weigh focusing on help of the middle class with their views on the role of government, or how said help may negatively effect other segments of the population, or may negatively effect the country as a whole in the short or long term, may differ from Democrats. Additionally, what TYPES of "help" is viewed as more important or more beneficial may differ. As would the METHODS in which they feel help should be given. But it's ridiculous, imho, to suggest either party by and large simply are against helping any particular segment of the population in some form as a matter of principle. Both sides generally believe their views and methods will ultimately help the majority of people in this country across the spectrum of race, gender, age, class, etc and that's why they push so hard for their ideas to occur. The other side may disagree that the ultimate result actually DOES help any of those things, but that's a matter of perspective and opinion regarding how one judges the matter as opposed to some kind of objective fact like the OP seems so desperately to establish.
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The question is this, will doing something as simple as allowing student loan consumers to refinance their debt help the middle class. The answer is yes it would. Republicans can give all this damn lip service to their policies all they want, but time and time again they shoot down initiatives such as this. But they are all for allowing creditors to do things like garnish wages. They don't seem to be able to offer anything but tax cuts for the wealthy and say that will help the middle class. That crap is a bunch of garbage. Such policies have gutted the middle class in this country and has resulted in the absurd distortions in income and wealth distribution that we observe today. That bullcrap trickle down, where government policy is designed to give more wealth to the wealthy so that they will trickle it down started full strength with Ronald Regan and has proceeded on with every administration since, including Democratic ones. At least the Democrats will take a stab at doing something such as allowing student loan consumers to do something as reasonable as refinancing their debt. But Republicans will step in and shoot it down. Then when Obama purposes free community college, they shoot that down. Then they shoot down and extension for unemployment benefits to people still suffering from the effects of the recession. After a while, you have to say, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Republicans, by their actions, have demonstrated a hostility towards the middle class.
 
Depends on if Obama is for it or not. If Obama is for it, Republicans are against it. That's been their whole raison d'etre since 2009.

In the end, I don't really think either major party has much interest in the middle class. Bunch of corporate whores on both sides.
 
Dovkan said:
What is wrong with it? In my area, poor children get free lunch or reduced lunch.
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There's a lot more to that program than lunches. You should read up.
 
rocket88 said:
Depends on if Obama is for it or not. If Obama is for it, Republicans are against it. That's been their whole raison d'etre since 2009.
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Yep, that pretty much sums them up. They don't have anything constructive, so all they can do is destroy things like allowing consumers to refinance their student loan debt. But when it comes time to give tax breaks for the wealthy, damn, they are gung ho. Damn, when will people wake up and see what these people are actually doing?

rocket88 said:
In the end, I don't really think either major party has much interest in the middle class. Bunch of corporate whores on both sides.
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Well, yep. Like someone else said, all they Democrats do is throw a few crumbs here and there. But when push comes to shove, you can bet they will side with the money. Bill threw the middle class under the bus with NAFTA to save his political hide. Hillary is no different.
 
MildSteel said:
Republicans appear to be determined to block any sort of efforts designed to help the middle class. For example they opposed this effort to allow students to refinance their student loans


GOP blocks Warren
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...which was poison-pilled with an extreme hike in effective tax rates on the wealthy.

They also have voiced opposition to Obama's plan to provide free community college...
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...paid for with what? And what affect would that have on the University system at large?

...and opposed extending unemployment insurance to unemployed Americans.
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That same unemployment insurance that study after study has shown to keep people out of the workforce for longer periods of time?

Are Republicans against helping the middle class?
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If you don't make several cases of false equivalence coupled to false dichotomies, then no, it doesn't look like they are doing anything negative to the middle class. It would be nice if Republicans came up with some plans of their own to help, but it seems they are busy keeping some truly awful ideas at bay from the other camp. Can't rebuild the building if someone is still actively setting it on fire.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
...which was poison-pilled with an extreme hike in effective tax rates on the wealthy.
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What? You want to burden student loan consumers, but you don't want the wealthy to be encumbered? What kind of **** is that? Sounds like just what I said, Republicans are against the middle class and for the wealthy.


Gonzo Rodeo said:
...paid for with what? And what affect would that have on the University system at large?
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What in the hell do you mean paid for with what? Paid for with the same damn money that has been spent towards the Republican rat hole that is Iraq. Trillions of dollars on a Republican led, Dick Cheney, wild goose chase. Why in the hell didn't Republicans complain about paid for with what then? But when it comes to helping the middle class with something like free community college they start bitching about "paid for with what." Why in the hell don't they bitch about "paid for with what" when it is time to send weapons to overthrow Assad in Syria? Why don't they bitch about "paid for with what" when it is time to bomb Iran? Why don't they bitch about " paid for with what" when it is time to send weapons to Ukraine? That "paid for with what" is a bunch of worn out crap **** that is merely an excuse to hide Republican hostility to programs that will help the middle class.

Gonzo Rodeo said:
That same unemployment insurance that study after study has shown to keep people out of the workforce for longer periods of time?
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Study after study my ass. Unemployment insurance does not keep people out of work. It is sending jobs overseas that keep people out of work. Republicans, and fools like Bill Clinton, are all about sending jobs overseas. And then when people can't find work, Republicans want to say its unemployment insurance that is keeping them unemployed. Again, it is no more than Republican hostility towards the middle class.

Gonzo Rodeo said:
If you don't make several cases of false equivalence coupled to false dichotomies, then no, it doesn't look like they are doing anything negative to the middle class.
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The only thing that you have done is posted a bunch of stupid nonsense that demonstrates a profound inability to see what is actually happening. Republicans are screwing the middle class and are merely using them to create more wealth for the rich. If you can't see that you are blind.

Gonzo Rodeo said:
It would be nice if Republicans came up with some plans of their own to help, but it seems they are busy keeping some truly awful ideas at bay from the other camp.
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Yes it would be nice if they did come up with some plans of their own. Why can't they? Because they have a hostility towards the middle class and want to use them to create more wealth for the wealthy. There isn't a damn thing bad about letting student loan customers refinance their loans. It's bad if you are a Republican that hates the middle class.
 
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countryboy said:
Yes, we are. Can we shut the **** up about it now? Please?
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Sure, once the Republican politicians start openly acknowledging to, too. But the Republican Party is not as honest and open about their plutocracy as you are. They are actively engaged in mislead the public into thinking that they are supporting the interest of average people.
 
Guy Incognito said:
They are actively engaged in mislead the public into thinking that they are supporting the interest of average people.
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Wow, just like the Dims. What a cowinkydink. :roll:
 
countryboy said:
Yes, we are. Can we shut the **** up about it now? Please?
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No, and here's why

1. Republicans are on record for opposing letting student loan consumers refinance their debt
2. Republicans are against Obama's free community college proposal
3. Republicans were against extending unemployment benefits to workers struggling from the effects of the recession

Here, Republicans have said no, no, no to things that would help the middle class.

Now one might wonder with all that negativity what are for. Well here is what they are for

1. Republicans championed letting creditors and big banks garnish wages.

So they have been against things to help the middle class, and all they can be for is garnishing wages by big banks. It is quite a pattern. And it is a pattern that strongly suggests that Republicans are hostile to middle class interests.
 
MildSteel said:
No your statement makes no sense because the point is that borrowers should be paying for their loans, not profiting the government billions of dollars.
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so you want them to have free money?

according to what i just read, current rates on government loans are 4.66% for student loans

you do understand where those fall historically, right?
 
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