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Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?


  • Total voters
    118
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

This is true. The belligerent that can, needn't concern itself with IL, or the UN if it decides that it's "interests" (nebulous as that is) supersede the former, and if it has the military, economic and political will, it can dismiss both.

Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I remember reading a long time ago that someone was discussing this very subject, and they simply asked "would you want a doctor from Bangledesh making the rules about health care for the entire world, including the US, just because someone at the UN gave him the authority to do so?" That scared the **** out of me at the time, and it still does! The "one-world government" people are only interested in power, IMO, and don't give a fig about the billions of people who would be affected by their decisions. We're not perfect, but we're still among the best the world has to offer. Just saying...
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I remember reading a long time ago that someone was discussing this very subject, and they simply asked "would you want a doctor from Bangledesh making the rules about health care for the entire world, including the US, just because someone at the UN gave him the authority to do so?" That scared the **** out of me at the time, and it still does! The "one-world government" people are only interested in power, IMO, and don't give a fig about the billions of people who would be affected by their decisions. We're not perfect, but we're still among the best the world has to offer. Just saying...

Which means that if we deem it to be in our interest, we'll tell the UN and International law to take a hike because "we're among the best the world has to offer"! That can only be done though if one has the power to do so. We're right back to might makes right, even though, it doesn't!
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Which means that if we deem it to be in our interest, we'll tell the UN and International law to take a hike because "we're among the best the world has to offer"! That can only be done though if one has the power to do so. We're right back to might makes right, even though, it doesn't!

Well, we only get one vote at the UN, same as the others, but we do provide much of their funding, and money does talk. Does International law over-ride our law? Maybe sometimes on treaties and such, but how is it that terrorist groups can commit the atrocities they are currently doing? They don't respect the law, and they laugh about it. China and Russia seem to be ganging up on us, and they are powerful too. What is the solution, Monte?
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Well, we only get one vote at the UN, same as the others, but we do provide much of their funding, and money does talk. Does International law over-ride our law? Maybe sometimes on treaties and such, but how is it that terrorist groups can commit the atrocities they are currently doing? They don't respect the law, and they laugh about it. China and Russia seem to be ganging up on us, and they are powerful too. What is the solution, Monte?

If as an example, disproportionate killing of civilians (say, such as the US Predator Drone Program does) is a violation of international law. Do you think US law should supersede that. And if US law and constitution nullifies international law when they conflict, then why couldn't other nations claim the same. Why couldn't Hussein tell the UN to take a hike, that they're resolve conflicts with Iraqi law? Simply because they hadn't the economic and military strength to oppose those countries which would enforce the resolutions. IOW, international law has to be followed, or it doesn't. The US can deny the authority of the ICC. Who's going force the US in front of that judicial body??
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Because we believe in rule of law, and a rational debate.

Seriously? The U.S. has a long track record of deposing governments we don't like, funding coups and terrorists, setting up puppet governments etc. Rule of law my ass.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

If as an example, disproportionate killing of civilians (say, such as the US Predator Drone Program does) is a violation of international law. Do you think US law should supersede that. And if US law and constitution nullifies international law when they conflict, then why couldn't other nations claim the same. Why couldn't Hussein tell the UN to take a hike, that they're resolve conflicts with Iraqi law? Simply because they hadn't the economic and military strength to oppose those countries which would enforce the resolutions. IOW, international law has to be followed, or it doesn't. The US can deny the authority of the ICC. Who's going force the US in front of that judicial body??

Our national security trumps all laws no matter what. Period
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Our national security trumps all laws no matter what. Period

Fine. Just remember that when Russia or China or Iran claim the same.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Fine. Just remember that when Russia or China or Iran claim the same.

Oh, but we're special! :roll:
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Seriously? The U.S. has a long track record of deposing governments we don't like, funding coups and terrorists, setting up puppet governments etc. Rule of law my ass.

I said WE as in the US. If a country makes a rational argument and acts in a legal manner, we will give them more lattitude than if they say one thing and do another.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Fine. Just remember that when Russia or China or Iran claim the same.

Sure that is why the UN is useless and why we try and build allies, although Obama has cut many of our allies.

Lets take Iran wanting a nuke, we as a nation can kill their economy which is our right in an attempt to stop them from getting a nuke. This is nothing new, power struggles have been going on for thousands of years.
 
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Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

They always apply. Not have the moral core to abide by your moral convictions is not the same as them not applying. And no, the outcome of a war is not dependent on committing atrocities. We did not have to bomb Dresden to win, we did not have to drop two nukes to win, we did not have to torture to win, it's a false premise that because something happened that we had no choice but to do it. There are choices.

Actually, the two nuclear weapons dropped on Japan were necessary for victory. Dresden was overkill.

HELL TO PAY | U.S. Naval Institute
www.usni.org/store/books/audio.../hell-pay
United States Naval Institute
In its final form, Operation Downfall called for a massive Allied invasion—on a scale ... Hell to Pay examines the invasion of Japan in light of the large body of ...
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

I said WE as in the US. If a country makes a rational argument and acts in a legal manner, we will give them more lattitude than if they say one thing and do another.

Only under laws *WE* deem valid. If they act entirely under their own rules and laws and we don't like those rules and laws, we ignore them entirely. We pretend that because we have a big stick, we get to dictate what is acceptable.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Ok. I'll have to take this up with you somewhere else another time. There's been a thread warning. My position on Iran if it interests you, is that they have only the rights that they can force.
Which is entirely dependent upon where the world draws the line_

Now we must ask ourselves: Do we want the world to draw that line???

Nukes don't exist in my world, but probably more and more countries will have them.
Unfortunately; your world does not exist in the real world_

"As a child, I believed as a child__As an adult, I put away those childish beliefs"

Simply wishing for something has never been a very effective solution Monty!
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Which is entirely dependent upon where the world draws the line_

Now we must ask ourselves: Do we want the world to draw that line???

Unfortunately; your world does not exist in the real world_

"As a child, I believed as a child__As an adult, I put away those childish beliefs"

Simply wishing for something has never been a very effective solution Monty!

Who's the world?

I don't need you quoting scripture to me, I don't recognize its authority.

Do you prefer a world with or without nuclear weapons.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

When your leader expresses a desire to have the apocalypse then the answer is no
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Who's the world?

I don't need you quoting scripture to me, I don't recognize its authority.

Do you prefer a world with or without nuclear weapons.

It doesn't matter what you prefer, it matters what is true.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

So colonialism and world domination, if done by a group (except for China, N Korea and Russia of course) is okay with you?
As I previously stated; the United States and its Western Allies have never demonstrated a desire for world domination; which is undeniable by their actions and policies after World War I & II_

And if by "colonialism" you're attempting to cherry pick dark historical events as evidence of past injustices by Western Civilization, then I'll have to remind you that all people, on every continent, the world over, have skeletons in their ancestral closets just as ugly_

Those with the nuclear weapons dictate who can (Israel, Pakistan etc) and who can't (Iran) develop a nuclear weapon. I wonder what next mandate will be coming from nuclear equipped group next?
If you are indeed referring to the United States; I would imagine their "mandates" would involve the same motivations and policies they always have_

Which is to prevent the use, proliferation, and development of WMDs especially among savages that have expressed and even demonstrated their violent intentions_

Consider this__Iran has already announced what its mandates will be; even as its nuclear capabilities are being developed__how bold is that Robert?!
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Which doesn't mean that nukes don't exist in your world. Wishful thinking isn't reality. Not sure how many times I have to keep pointing this out.

Who said there isn't nuclear weapons in the world. I believe I have demonstrated my support for nuclear eradication thoroughly here. Do you realize the biggest protest in American history was an anti nuclear weapons protest in New York City?? You think there's just two people that want to see a ban on nuclear weapons. If we let the people that say, they're here live with it, influence the day, then yeah we'll continue to have them.

Nuclear disarmament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

El Salvador
“We support an inclusive negotiating process with civil society for a legally binding instrument prohibiting nuclear weapons.” December 2014

Argentina “Argentina supports the efforts of the international community to move towards the negotiation of a universal legally binding instrument banning nuclear weapons.” September 2013

Jamaica “It is with a sense of urgency that we engage in the discourse on nuclear disarmament and move towards a ban on these lethal weapons.” December 2014

Norway “We are working along several different tracks to achieve the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. We are aiming at a genuine, total ban.” September 2011

Peru “It is only through a prohibition on the use and possession of nuclear weapons that we will achieve elimination.” March 2013

South Africa
“The only way to guarantee the security that we all seek is through the total elimination of nuclear weapons and their prohibition. It is indeed an anomaly that nuclear weapons remain the only weapons of mass destruction that have yet to be subjected to a comprehensive, global prohibition.” December 2014

Just a smidgen of the nations working for eradication.
 
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Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Who said there isn't nuclear weapons in the world.

You said in post #346: "Nukes don't exist in my world"

There you go.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

I heard someone make the argument that Obama doesn't believe the US has any rightful role in preventing or hindering Iran from developing and maintaining nuclear weapons. I don't know that that's true, and nobody but the President can answer to what he believes, so I'll ask what you believe. If Iran has the ability, does it have the "right" to nuclear weapons? (By "right", I mean the U.S. and other nations would not be unjustified in trying to prevent it.)

working on the poll

It doesn't matter whether we do or don't think that the Iranians have a right to nuclear weapons. What DOES matter is that THEY - the Iranians - believe they have a right to build their own nuclear weapons. Now with skillful use of diplomacy and deal-making, we can stop it from happening. But if we allow the Neanderthal Right (both here in America and in Israel) to run things, they'll just say "If you make them, we will bomb you"...which means all the more that the Iranians WILL make them.

That's what's so stupid about the Right - they raise hell at the very thought of someone telling them something they don't want to hear, but they pretend that the {Insert Name of Enemy Here} will meekly say, "Okay, you're threatening to bomb us, so we'll do what you are telling us to do." It's as if in the Right's view, any 'diplomacy' that does not include bombers in the air waiting to rain destruction down on the other guy is automatically the modern-day equivalent of Chamberlain's "appeasement".
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

It doesn't matter whether we do or don't think that the Iranians have a right to nuclear weapons. What DOES matter is that THEY - the Iranians - believe they have a right to build their own nuclear weapons. Now with skillful use of diplomacy and deal-making, we can stop it from happening. But if we allow the Neanderthal Right (both here in America and in Israel) to run things, they'll just say "If you make them, we will bomb you"...which means all the more that the Iranians WILL make them.

That's what's so stupid about the Right - they raise hell at the very thought of someone telling them something they don't want to hear, but they pretend that the {Insert Name of Enemy Here} will meekly say, "Okay, you're threatening to bomb us, so we'll do what you are telling us to do." It's as if in the Right's view, any 'diplomacy' that does not include bombers in the air waiting to rain destruction down on the other guy is automatically the modern-day equivalent of Chamberlain's "appeasement".

The problem is not that critics believe the Iranians will meekly submit, but rather that they will continue to push toward a weapon.

War with Iran is probably our best option - The Washington Post
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

You said in post #346: "Nukes don't exist in my world"

There you go.

You don't understand that phrase!!! :roll:
 
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