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Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?


  • Total voters
    118
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

And now they might withdraw their support of it. but taking your point since North Korea did not sign it and Israel did not sign it (and a couple of others I think) it would be okay for them to have and use nuclear weapons.

We have no moral superiority (short of colonial power) to dictate to other nations how they should live, our house is not in that good of order at this point on any number of issues

OK is different from having the right. They have the same inherent rights as anyone else, since we are all created equal. Thats not the same as saying its OK for our enemies to be able to destroy us. Its morally correct for an individual to anticipate an attack and defend against it.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Its been that way ever since I started posting here. It could be fixed by simply only allowing members to vote. However Admin doesn't want to restrict it in the Polls section as it does help convince people to become members. And I agree with that. :) Quite a few people have started posting here because of being able to answer polls in the poll section. The rest of the forum however the polls are restricted to members only. Unfortunately there are people that take advantage of it. "shrug" Partisan hackery at its finest I guess.

Indeed. I see a rash of new Hillary supporters as we type.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

But is that the right of the U.S. to dictate to the rest of the world, sounds a lot like colonialism

It's not just the U.S. It's all five of the original nuclear weapons states: U.S., Russia, Britain, France and China. All leadership is not colonialism. Nonetheless, there's no denying the NPT enshrines inequality. That has always been its weakness.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

It's not just the U.S. It's all five of the original nuclear weapons states: U.S., Russia, Britain, France and China. All leadership is not colonialism. Nonetheless, there's no denying the NPT enshrines inequality. That has always been its weakness.

That assumes that anyone really wants those five nations to lead. Leadership isn't imposed, it's chosen, otherwise it's dictatorship.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

That assumes that anyone really wants those five nations to lead. Leadership isn't imposed, it's chosen, otherwise it's dictatorship.

It was chosen. Those happen to be the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

It was chosen. Those happen to be the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.

Largely because they muscled their way in. I'm sure lots of other nations would love to be on the council, those five nations keep them out. A "permanent member" isn't chosen, any more than a "permanent president" would be.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Largely because they muscled their way in. I'm sure lots of other nations would love to be on the council, those five nations keep them out. A "permanent member" isn't chosen, any more than a "permanent president" would be.

They were chosen by unanimous agreement when the UN was founded.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

They were chosen by unanimous agreement when the UN was founded.

And nothing has changed since then? Nobody might want to change their mind?
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

From a Realist perspective, they have the "right" to whatever they can get away with.

We, in turn, have the "right" to impede them in such pursuits if it goes against our own interests.

At the end of the day, it's really as simple as that. Iran has an agenda, and we have an agenda. Unfortunately, those agendas simply happen to be mutually incompatible.

May the best nation win. :shrug:

This.


When we speak of global events, nation to nation, or nation vs nation....rights become largely irrelevant. MIGHT is the order of the day.



And no, Iran does not have the MIGHT to prevent us from preventing them from developing nuclear munitions of any sort.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

And nothing has changed since then? Nobody might want to change their mind?

That's what "permanent" means. And there have been changes. China replaced Taiwan in the China seat, and Russia replaced the USSR.

Don't get me wrong; I think the NPT is probably unsustainable over the long term because of the inequality that bothers you. However, those who want to end it should understand that the equality they achieve will come at the price of more nuclear danger.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

That's what "permanent" means. And there have been changes. China replaced Taiwan in the China seat, and Russia replaced the USSR.

Don't get me wrong; I think the NPT is probably unsustainable over the long term because of the inequality that bothers you. However, those who want to end it should understand that the equality they achieve will come at the price of more nuclear danger.

It has nothing to do with inequality, it has to do with reality. The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in. The technology is there to make nukes, like it or not. Any country that wants a nuke enough will eventually get one. It is foolish to pretend otherwise. There are countries out there that have nukes that I think have no business with them, that doesn't stop them from having them. The fact is, having nukes is a huge deterrent to being attacked, particularly by the U.S. After 9/11, instead of going after Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (which supposedly has no nukes, although it openly helps with the nuclear programs, even military nuclear programs, of other Arab nations), those places from which the actual attackers came from and were trained, we went into Afghanistan and Iraq. I can maybe understand Afghanistan. Iraq though? That was a witch hunt. We just don't go after any countries with a nuclear capability. We can't kick sand in their faces. They can actually fight back and hurt us. If it was up to me, I'd give a single nuke to every country on the planet, with the understanding that if they ever used it, they'd be blasted into molten sand. It would help keep the peace better than anything we've got now.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

That's what "permanent" means. And there have been changes. China replaced Taiwan in the China seat, and Russia replaced the USSR.

Don't get me wrong; I think the NPT is probably unsustainable over the long term because of the inequality that bothers you. However, those who want to end it should understand that the equality they achieve will come at the price of more nuclear danger.

Agreed. It should be repaired, not eliminated. It would not be a bad idea to eliminate nuclear weapons globally though.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Your opponents arguments haven't really been that nations have a "right" to nuclear arms, it's been that it's insanely hypocritical for us to try to enforce massive sanctions and even threaten war over something we have and refuse to give up.

The actors involved are important, as are intentions. Merely possessing or desiring the same items does not make it hypocritical. Is it hypocritical of responsible gun owners to want laws against gun ownership for those with violent criminal histories or stated intentions? Of course not. In this case, one country has stated a desire to wipe out an entire country and has a strong distaste for a particular ethnicity. That is not in any way analogous to potentially using them as a means to end an ongoing war.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

It has nothing to do with inequality, it has to do with reality. The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in. The technology is there to make nukes, like it or not. Any country that wants a nuke enough will eventually get one. It is foolish to pretend otherwise. There are countries out there that have nukes that I think have no business with them, that doesn't stop them from having them. The fact is, having nukes is a huge deterrent to being attacked, particularly by the U.S. After 9/11, instead of going after Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (which supposedly has no nukes, although it openly helps with the nuclear programs, even military nuclear programs, of other Arab nations), those places from which the actual attackers came from and were trained, we went into Afghanistan and Iraq. I can maybe understand Afghanistan. Iraq though? That was a witch hunt. We just don't go after any countries with a nuclear capability. We can't kick sand in their faces. They can actually fight back and hurt us. If it was up to me, I'd give a single nuke to every country on the planet, with the understanding that if they ever used it, they'd be blasted into molten sand. It would help keep the peace better than anything we've got now.

The invasion of Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11, and was in fact on the GWB agenda from the moment he took the oath. The attackers trained in Afghanistan; that's why we went there. The fact that the 9/11 attackers were Saudi citizens does not implicate the Saudi government.

There was no country we might have attacked after 9/11 that had any capability to strike us with nuclear weapons.

The more countries that have nuclear weapons the more likely it is that nuclear weapons will be used.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Agreed. It should be repaired, not eliminated. It would not be a bad idea to eliminate nuclear weapons globally though.

Nuclear weapons will never be eliminated. They will almost certainly be used in the 21st century.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

"Right" has nothing to do with it.


It is about what the "Results" are likely to be, and they're not likely to be good for anyone, including Iranians.
A good point. As others have inavertently pointed out, the Iranian leadership would likely use nukes in the same fashion as North Korea, warding off unwanted foreign influence and essentially insulating their power even further.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Agreed. It should be repaired, not eliminated. It would not be a bad idea to eliminate nuclear weapons globally though.

But that's a wholly unrealistic goal. So long as someone knows how to make nukes, someone will make nukes.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

No, it will be pinned on you by others was my point. You must be partisan, don't you know?

No actually I do not, and I do not take well to labelers either, one of my pet peeves
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

But that's a wholly unrealistic goal. So long as someone knows how to make nukes, someone will make nukes.

Well then brace yourself for everybody to have them. Who knows, maybe then my goal of war being obsolete will bud.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

No actually I do not, and I do not take well to labelers either, one of my pet peeves

Is my sarcasm escaping you? I agree with you RiO, and I'm glad you can be a critic of both parties, you'll stand out. Most people are partisans and as such contribute nothing towards improvement. They ensure the status quo.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Just because Iran has a right to Nuclear weapons doesn't mean they should actually have them.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Is my sarcasm escaping you? I agree with you RiO, and I'm glad you can be a critic of both parties, you'll stand out. Most people are partisans and as such contribute nothing towards improvement. They ensure the status quo.

And some are simply mindless critics of the US.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Is my sarcasm escaping you? I agree with you RiO, and I'm glad you can be a critic of both parties, you'll stand out. Most people are partisans and as such contribute nothing towards improvement. They ensure the status quo.

I guess it did - my apologies for missing it
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Well then brace yourself for everybody to have them. Who knows, maybe then my goal of war being obsolete will bud.

Then everyone has them. Nobody is going to use them for anything but saber rattling, just like now and if they do... they'll become an ex-nation and a glass desert.
 
Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

Then everyone has them. Nobody is going to use them for anything but saber rattling, just like now and if they do... they'll become an ex-nation and a glass desert.

If everyone has them then someone will use them.
 
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