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Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?


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Nothing you said is backed by any of your links.



Right, barely used - is not synonymous with not discovered.

Remember that's what you said, Did you forget -



Quite the contrary, barely used - means that it was used but barely. Is English your first language?

So that's one BS claim you made dismissed.



What from your initial posts does this link prove?


From your own source.




So we have established that the only thing you are good at is mining for links that you think support your claims, but actually don't.

How intriguing.



A forum? That's your source?
This is the equivalent of me quoting from stormfront to prove that all whites are disgruntled angry racists.

Though I speculate that you have an account on that site so I doubt you would have any qualms with me quoting from there.


From your own source:



I'm just loving your dishonesty. Are you seriously trying to implicate that the choices made by a few in one country - not even the entire country, somehow reflect that of an entire continent?

Jesus Christ. Lol That's some serious fallacy.


Ok. What's your point? You made the claim that the Entire continent of Africa has always been a mess and then in an attempt to desperately try to substantiate that ridiculous claim you offered nothing but isolated Incidences. Nothing that would suggest that Africa is comprised of witch craft, baby raping, Neanderthals like you are trying to insist.

I'm sorry - you're going to have to try harder than that.


you still have not proven this claim.

Lolz if your own PC mantra is going to prevent you from recognizing the facts thats not my problem.
Its bass ackwards on its best day.
 
Lolz if your own PC mantra is going to prevent you from recognizing the facts thats not my problem.
Its bass ackwards on its best day.

lol you saw my rebuttal and you couldn't find a single intellectual refutation in your mental faculties to come up with.

This turd of a response is a novel try though.
 
lol you saw my rebuttal and you couldn't find a single intellectual refutation in your mental faculties to come up with.

This turd of a response is a novel try though.

Or I just know when to save the keystrokes. Your post was full of emotion and its clear you don't want to recognize the facts in africa.

BTW-I provide medical care in remote mexican villages, and many I work with have served in Africa as well, its worse than Ive said or what you can imagine.

Africa is Africa.
 
Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.


Other. They wouldn't exist today. Many black Americans are descended from multiple African tribes/nationalities and even some European,native American and other descent. If black people were not brought here to American their ancestors would have continued mixing with their own tribes and or possibly been killed off. their descendants would be completely different people today. The people of African descent whose ancestors immigrated on their own to this country would be completely different people today because would not have had the gene-pool of the black Americans whose ancestors were brought here as slaves to mix with.
 
Or I just know when to save the keystrokes. Your post was full of emotion and its clear you don't want to recognize the facts in africa.

No it was full of facts that effectively refuted your every word. There was no emotion present at all, other than - perhaps, the emotion of amusement.

BTW-I provide medical care in remote mexican villages, and many I work with have served in Africa as well, its worse than Ive said or what you can imagine.

An anecdote is never a reliable source when trying to establish an observable norm - since your perspective can be persuaded by your biases and limited field of observation.

Africa is Africa.

Yes and a foolish claim is a foolish claim.
 
I didn't read the OP.

I didn't read the OP.

I didn't read the OP.

I didn't read the OP.

I didn't read the OP.

Well, since the question specifically asked if AFRICANS LIVING IN AMERICA weren't descended from slaves, I'll have to assume "They would still be in Africa" isn't an answer to the question. They would be much better off, for the most part. Every ethnic group that immigrated here willingly tends to do better as the generations go by, except for Africans, the only race taken here against their will. And the Africans that did come here willingly tend to do much better economically than the descendants of slaves.

The obvious conclusion is that they would be doing just as well as anybody else if it wasn't for the method by which their ancestors arrived.
 
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Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.

The highlighted is probably true.
Also probably true is that slavery is the only route that could have brought black people to the US. I mean, during the period of the slave trade, is there even one example of black emigration from Africa? Why would they have wanted to go to the US? And why would the US have accepted them?
 
Well, since the question specifically asked if AFRICANS LIVING IN AMERICA weren't descended from slaves, I'll have to assume "They would still be in Africa" isn't an answer to the question. They would be much better off, for the most part. Every ethnic group that immigrated here willingly tends to do better as the generations go by, except for Africans, the only race taken here against their will. And the Africans that did come here willingly tend to do much better economically than the descendants of slaves.

The obvious conclusion is that they would be doing just as well as anybody else if it wasn't for the method by which their ancestors arrived.

Such absolute nonsense.

So youre saying there's a genetic and physiological reason that some Black people struggle and its directly connected to Slavery ?

Lol !

Riculous and arbitrary narratives that are based on convincing people that they're perennial victims based on nothing but some idiots opinion have far more to do with the struggles that some Black Americans go through than " Slavery " does.
 
Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.

Assuming that they would come willingly, they'd be better off. Most immigrant groups have been treated better and ish of the race issues we have carry the baggage of racially based slavery.
 
Ah, so black people should be grateful that their ancestors were subjected to brutal slavery that resulted in beating, rape, murder and other heinous crimes against humanity because now they get to have Big Macs. Awesome.

I think that being born in the worlds superpower offers you more than the chance to buy a Big Mac. Speaking of McDonalds, why are Jnr Burgers now called Hamburgers? Or is this just in Australia? I think that it is confusing. Also, wasnt the big thing with McDonalds that you could walk in and buy some food and not have to wait for it? But now I have to take a number and wait for them to cook it? That is idiotic. Also, if you just want a drink you still have to wait for the person before you to have your terrible food cooked. And it is terrible and getting worse. back in the 80s you could snap French Fries but not now. Because they changed the oil now French Fries are floppy and disgusting. Same with KFC chicken skin. Its disgusting. No wonder less and less people go to these germ ridden McDonalds franchises these days.

But back to African Americans, how many will take a one way ticket to Africa?

And people act like blacks were the only people that were ever slaves. The Romans had slaves and are we better for the Roman Empire existing? I would say certainly. Maybe one of your ancestors was a Roman slave. Black people are not the only ones that have been slaves.

But anyway, I suggest that America offer all black 'hands up dont shoot' protesters a one way ticket to Africa. But would Africa really want these complainers? Imagine what they will expect from African governments and society.

Imagine if you were an actual African living in Africa and you saw African Americans on tv complaining about living in America. That would disgust them you would imagine.
 
Well, since the question specifically asked if AFRICANS LIVING IN AMERICA weren't descended from slaves, I'll have to assume "They would still be in Africa" isn't an answer to the question. They would be much better off, for the most part. Every ethnic group that immigrated here willingly tends to do better as the generations go by, except for Africans, the only race taken here against their will. And the Africans that did come here willingly tend to do much better economically than the descendants of slaves.

The obvious conclusion is that they would be doing just as well as anybody else if it wasn't for the method by which their ancestors arrived.

I disagree. The Africans that have come to America "willingly" are basically traitors to Africa. Why did they move to America? Probably because Africa sucks. And if they have the ability to move to America then we can assume that most of these people come from a background of security and education. The fact that they came to America from Africa tells you that they consider America to be a better place to live than Africa. Most of the people that come from slaves would not have the ability in modern times to move themselves from Africa to America. What percentage of Africans have the ability to just move to America do you think? Less than 1%? It couldnt be many. See for a poor person it is not so easy to just move to another country. Most of these people descended from slaves would be stuck in Africa and their lives would suck because Africa sucks. So the fact that they came to America as slaves and became American is a good thing and has made them better off. Being born in the USA is like winning the lottery. Thanks to slavery these Africans won the lottery.

What you say is beyond ridiculous. This nonsense about Africans that have come to America willingly tend to do better. Why do you think that is? Can a poor and uneducated African easily move to America? Of course not. So what kind of Africans are coming? Of course they will tend to do better than a minority that underachieves in US society.

You honestly think that because some black person had an ancestor that was a slave hundreds of years ago is disadvantaged by that? That is absurd. Is this what is wrong with Irish people? Vikings used to like to get hot white Irish slave girls from Ireland and sell them to wealthy Southern Europeans and Muslims. If they were extra hot they would get a nice collar. Ireland was the best source of hot white sex slaves for a long time. Is this why the Irish underachieve?

edit- It is interesting with the collars. I had the same idea for those guys at Sugardaddy.com. Like expensive collars for high value sugarbabies. And when I read that Vikings did that I kind of felt bad.

edit- But watch a Charlie XCX clip. Soon young sugarbabies will happily wear collars. It will be a symbol of ease and security. Not something to be ashamed of. And the nicer the collar, the better the contract the sugarbaby has. Why should a sugarbaby be ashamed of her blessings and ease?

Lets get drunk on the minibar!

edit- who is to say what is a slave and what is not anyway?



USA! USA! USA!
 
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See for a poor person it is not so easy to just move to another country.

The only sentence of your post I agree with.

Most of these people descended from slaves would be stuck in Africa and their lives would suck because Africa sucks.

Highly subjective and so much depends on your circumstances, which are often not so golden in the USA. For example, I think I'd rather be out with the guys in the bottom picture here:

View attachment 67181630
LA welfare line

View attachment 67181631
Middle class Africans on a night out, Johannesburg.


Being born in the USA is like winning the lottery.

Quite often the booby prize.
Being amongst the world's richest nations doesn't make things rosy in the garden for all your citizens. Inequality and social injustice make any nation, rich or poor, suck. No, I wouldn't want to live in most African nations, but I'd equally not want to live in the USA.
Is this why the Irish underachieve?.

Outrageous claim.
Should I start with Boyle and Joyce?
Do you actually know any Irish people? Ever been to Ireland?

USA! USA! USA!


That you have to sell it so much speaks a bundle.

I actually find the original question a little pointless. As someone has pointed out, they wouldn't be the same people as they wouldn't have been through the intermarriage and the rapes that have made them very different from African Africans. Does anybody really care? Would it not be more pertinent to concentrate on where they are now as a community and where they're going in the future?
 
Well, since the question specifically asked if AFRICANS LIVING IN AMERICA weren't descended from slaves, I'll have to assume "They would still be in Africa" isn't an answer to the question. They would be much better off, for the most part. Every ethnic group that immigrated here willingly tends to do better as the generations go by, except for Africans, the only race taken here against their will. And the Africans that did come here willingly tend to do much better economically than the descendants of slaves.
The obvious conclusion is that they would be doing just as well as anybody else if it wasn't for the method by which their ancestors arrived.



It's an undeniable fact that the vast majority of the Black people in the USA are the descendents of Blacks who were brought here from Africa as slaves.

No one can change that essential fact. :roll:

All of the woulda,coulda, shoulda in the world will have zero impact on reality.
 
I don't see how blacks would have come to be in the U.S. unless they had come here as slaves or indentured servants.
 
I disagree. The Africans that have come to America "willingly" are basically traitors to Africa. Why did they move to America? Probably because Africa sucks. And if they have the ability to move to America then we can assume that most of these people come from a background of security and education. The fact that they came to America from Africa tells you that they consider America to be a better place to live than Africa. Most of the people that come from slaves would not have the ability in modern times to move themselves from Africa to America. What percentage of Africans have the ability to just move to America do you think? Less than 1%? It couldnt be many. See for a poor person it is not so easy to just move to another country. Most of these people descended from slaves would be stuck in Africa and their lives would suck because Africa sucks. So the fact that they came to America as slaves and became American is a good thing and has made them better off. Being born in the USA is like winning the lottery. Thanks to slavery these Africans won the lottery.

What you say is beyond ridiculous. This nonsense about Africans that have come to America willingly tend to do better. Why do you think that is? Can a poor and uneducated African easily move to America? Of course not. So what kind of Africans are coming? Of course they will tend to do better than a minority that underachieves in US society.

You honestly think that because some black person had an ancestor that was a slave hundreds of years ago is disadvantaged by that? That is absurd. Is this what is wrong with Irish people? Vikings used to like to get hot white Irish slave girls from Ireland and sell them to wealthy Southern Europeans and Muslims. If they were extra hot they would get a nice collar. Ireland was the best source of hot white sex slaves for a long time.
Is this why the Irish underachieve?




edit- It is interesting with the collars. I had the same idea for those guys at Sugardaddy.com. Like expensive collars for high value sugarbabies. And when I read that Vikings did that I kind of felt bad.

edit- But watch a Charlie XCX clip. Soon young sugarbabies will happily wear collars. It will be a symbol of ease and security. Not something to be ashamed of. And the nicer the collar, the better the contract the sugarbaby has. Why should a sugarbaby be ashamed of her blessings and ease?

Lets get drunk on the minibar!

edit- who is to say what is a slave and what is not anyway?



USA! USA! USA!




You obviously know very little about the Irish. :roll:
 
1. There would be far, far less black Americans.
2. Integration between blacks and the rest of Americans would have occurred softer as it did for other races and ethnicities.

There are only two races/ethnicities that never wanted to be part of the American experience and American way: Native Americans and Africans brought here as slaves. Those 2 groups remain at the bottom of the economic and social ladder.
 
It's an undeniable fact that the vast majority of the Black people in the USA are the descendents of Blacks who were brought here from Africa as slaves..

This is not President Obama's ancestry. Even Harry Reid noted he isn't really like the vast majority of black Americans, which is accurate because he definitely isn't, even by heritage.
 
This is not President Obama's ancestry. Even Harry Reid noted he isn't really like the vast majority of black Americans, which is accurate because he definitely isn't, even by heritage.



That agrees with what I said in my post, where I said that the vast majority of Blacks in the USA are descended from slaves.

Of course I know that there are exceptions, like President Obama. But he is an exception. :roll:

President Obama's life story is very different from the life story of most Blacks in the USA.

The history of Black slavery in the USA and its aftermath is a sad story, there's no way to put a good spin on it.
 
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I worked in an area with significant African immigration, and I was a bit shocked at how similar they are to African-Americans, how naturally and smoothly they commingled with African-Americans, the same sort of negative behavior some associate with blacks, such as drug dealing, abusing girlfriends. Too limited a sample to make general conclusions, but I have to say I am now skeptical that slavery had any lasting effect on descendants of slaves and their culture.
 
When I first read this thread - my first thought was it was designed to show that had slavery never existed, then many descendants of 'black' Americans would still be in Africa. And since most of Africa is far worse off then America, they would be worse off financially. Therefore 'black' Americans descended from slaves are better off then they had of been had slavery never existed.

My answer to that would be - I could care less even if they are now 1,000 times better off then had slavery never existed.

NOTHING justifies slavery...nothing.


And trying to decide if they are better off for it is a ridiculous question that cannot possibly be answered with any degree of accuracy.

It's like asking are the descendants of holocaust survivors better off had there been no holocaust...it's a ridiculous question and impossible to answer and designed - imo - to justify in some way the crimes committed against these people.
 
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Yeah, this is why I asked Goshin for a source. The belief that "Africa has always been a mess" is a product of white supremacist history lessons that have been dominant in American history. The accomplishments of African civilizations were pretty much erased from history taught in Americans schools until Carter G. Woodson among others demanded that Black history become part of the curriculum. Africa's history is just as rich as everyone else's history. It genuinely saddens me that many people still don't know that.

The civilisations and cities of the South American natives seem to have suffered similar extinctions. The numbers of peoples there reduced far more than has ever happened in Africa.

But on the subject of slavery, peoples and their civilisations had to be reduced beyond the stone age so as to justify enslavement and treatment of peoples as sub-human. The impact of that history and way of thinking at does not get changed overnight nor even over 3-400 years.

Na its always been a mess. Few written languages, some places hadn't discovered the wheel until it was introduced there in the 19th century. Many still believe things like ebola are caused by witchcraft, some think chants make them bulletproof, and some think raping a baby cures aids.

I'd call it a mess.

Your post has been largely dealt with by another however I work in the arts and pottery is a family subject (my sister is a professional ceramicist) - potter's wheels and the introduction of coil pottery goes back beyond Christ in Africa.

The 15,000 ton walls of the city of Great Zimbabwe and its counterparts in Mozambique were not built by dragging huge boulders over the difficult terrain nor where they built by martians.

However if you wish to continue in your belief, I am not here to waste further words.
 
Had Africans come to America of their own free will, but had faced the same discrimination from the end of the Civil War to the end of Jim Crow, then their situation wouldn't be vastly different. Had the systemic racial discrimination not been in place, then they would be much better off.
 
Depends. If the imagined circumstances were to happen, would they still have race baiting charlatans making excuses for failure and telling them why they cant succeed and how its really not their fault and an entire political party exploiting them? Cuz if so...probably about the same.
 
While it has been infamously stipulated that slavery was a significant factor in the African American's underclass status in the late 20th century, we should keep in mind that racial hegemony and concepts of racial inferiority or superiority would have continued to reign. To whatever extent this would have thus dramatically improved their lot in life is difficult to gauge, but "white" (however it would be defined decade by decade) acceptance of the other races would still be key. Would I expect their status to be improved? Sure, but in a rather limited manner.
 
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